My Legal Rights

B

Belle

Registered Senior Member
I've got a question for any of you who may know about the legal rights of minors.
http://www.b418.com/juvenilesandlegalrights.htm
Federal law states Juveniles are given basic Constitution rights and those allotted to them by their guardian
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What exactly are the basic rights I'm garenteed? Do these rights only come from the U.S. Constitution, or do state constitutions apply also?
http://www.harbornet.com/rights/arkansas.txt
From section 24 of the Arkansas Bill of Rights: "....no man can, of right, be compelled to attend, erect, or support any place of worship.... against his consent."
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If state constitutions also apply, is this one of my basic rights, or is my church attendance something my parents can control until I'm 18?
Any help would be much appriciated.
-Belle
 
Don't tell me I've found another Arkansan!

Federal law applies to the central government. I couldn't get your link to work for that first part, so I don't know if I'm misreading what you are asking for. That qoute sounds like it is implying that you cannot be denied your basic rights guarenteed in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution. The "alllotted by guardian" line seems to be the kicker there. That seems like it would have a very, very broad interpretation. And not much mention is made of Religion (I assume that was the main focus of your question) in the Constution except that you have the freedom to take part if you wish and the State cannot force a religion upon you.

As far as the part about "forced to worship" from the AR Constitution seems to be geared towards State sanctioned religions. No civil authority can force you to attend a church service. I would say that legally you would be under your guardian's power in this matter until you were 18.

But if things aren't working out the way you need them to, do the American thing - Sue :D

I hope all of my late night blathering was of some use.
 
Yup! I'm an Arkansan!

LoserIncorporated you said exactly what I feared.

I want to post the whole of Section 24 because I've got another question.
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can, of right, be compelled to attend, erect, or support any place of worship; or to maintain any ministry against his consent. No human authority can, in any case or manner whatsoever, control or interfere with the right of conscience; and no preference shall ever be given, by law, to any religious establishment, denomination or mode of worship, above any other.
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Using the underlined sections, does that help my argument any? I'm determined to fight this one pretty hard.
-Belle
 
Hm.

I would still say that the underlined sections still seem to just lean towards protecting someone against State sanctioned religion. I can see where the underlined sections would look like they extend rights to minors...but I'm not quite sure how religion has been dealt with in the past in regards to the rights of minors.

I assume that you are having a struggle with either parents or guardians about the attending of church services? (Just smack me with a trout if I'm digging my nose where it doesn't belong)

You could always show them Article 24 and tell them that you believe that it is your State-protected right to choose whether you do or do not attend church. However we do live in the Bible Belt and they may try and override your argument because you are a minor. Plus you also have to take into account the possiblity if this fight has progressed to the point where you are having to look at your Constitutional rights to defend yourself, whoever you are going up against may just dismiss whatever information you bring to them.

Good luck. If I can be of any more help, just let me know.
 
If nothing else just tell your parents that you don't want to go and that they can make you go but they can't make you believe.
 
Notify your guardians of the futility of their endeavors. Assert proudly that regardless of their efforts you will not accept their fallacies simply because they themselves are weak-minded enough to entertain them as "truth."

Follow up by telling them this is your favorite website:


FuckChrist.com

Then ask them to join the club.
 
haha, well as fun as it would be to watch something like that, I have the strangest feeling that most religious parents would determine that it is evidence that their child is in a moral crisis and needs all the more religious influence because of it.

I sympathize with you belle, It sucks having religion forced on you, and if you sued or really did try to take any legal action to keep your parents from forcing you to go to church then you'd likely fail because you are a minor. I'm fairly certain that this would even be true if your state constitution specifically named protection of minors under that article, politicos tend to have a way of ignoring the law, or coming up with very creative interpretations when it comes to pushing their own agendas, especially if those agendas are in line with the prevailing values of the time and place. In other words it looks like you're stuck with religion until you're of age.
 
I agree with you Mystech, telling my parents to fuck off would only result in more religion being dumped on my head. But hey, "of age" is only a year and 1/2 away. Maybe I can wait that long, if I don't go crazy in the mean time.
 
The original constitution did not have a bill of rights and was not designed to have one it was the states that would not except the constitution unless it had them. Some historians say this is why we have a bigger goverment then we should according to the constitution. (The federal goverment never should have had the power to take away those rights).

Your natural rights are according to one of the philospers that ideas were used in the constitution are "Life, liberty and the pesuit of property" --John Lock. This only applies to goverment however so basically untill your 18 you gotta go unless they are abusive then you can get emancipated, then again you have to get a job.
 
I can not believe that somebody had the nerve to put up a website like that. Nevermind learning as a society to accept each others differences. Lets just take cheap shots at eachother. I realize that bringing up the website may have been a joke, but I can't say I find it funny. People are stupid.

Belle, your parents are wrong in trying to make you have religion againts your will and you should by all rights be able to not go, but alas some parents just don't know what to make of there kids religous choices. I'm affraid this is probably a losing battle, but look on the bright side. We're only talking about an hour once a week. I suppose If you really want that hour, you can try showing them the clauses you've sighted. I can understand how if you have no religion, then church is a big waste of time.......but thats life.

Good luck.;)
 
...actually it's 2 hours Sunday morning, 1 hour sunday night and another hour Wednesday night. But that's not what's important. The fact that they don't respect my religious veiws is the problem. It's pretty sad that I'm having to drag legal issues into this, just so I can be allowed to express my religion my way. But that's life for ya. Rights, what rights?
 
well, to just get out of chruch (as opposed to try and have them accept your religious beliefs, you could go with the following, which seems to work better on parents than any other one that I've tried:

"I think God is great. But the stuff that I read about in the bible isn't followed bythe church we attend. I would rather follow the words of Jesus more closely than I can at church, and praise God in my own way. Jesus wasn't happy with the state of the temple, and he ransacked the place. I am not happy with the state of the Church, but instead of ransacking it, I simply want to remove myself from it. I want to do service for others, wonder in his natural creations, and be free of these earthly orders. To be simple and love everyone."
if they retort w/ "Jesus also said to keep the Sabbath days holy", remind them that Sabboth is Saturday, and the Chruch moved worship form Saturday to Sunday (the "Lord's Day") long after Jesus was dead. When prompted for an explination for this from the scriptures, they admited there was no reason in the canocal texts.
http://www.nisbett.com/sabbath/history/hos13.htm
http://latter-rain.com/earlychurch/lorday.htm (says the lords day is because that was the day that Jesus was brought from the dead, but this can't be the case, as the day after Jesus died, John went to "toil in the feilds". However, if Jesus died on Good Friday, then the next day would be Saturday, the Sabboth, a day on which Jewish people are not allowed to do work! The entire time frame is based on a different calendar, anyway, and the holidays are largely based on old Roman holidays which were converted over when Constinine converted Rome to Christianity)

That way, you can run around the woods if you want, and still be "praising god". If you don't believe it, or if you want to be fully honest with your parents, then all I can offer is moral support.

It's not an easy road you are attempting to travel, but I have found it worth while. I used the above to get out of going to Chruch, and have since come fully clean with both parents. neither are happy, but both at least aren't *forcing* me to go to church. though my mom often tries to trick me into it :(


edit:
as for legal actions, I would recomend against it, because if you fail, there will still be residual frustration. IUf you succeed, there will be residual frustration. Either way, 30 years from now you may want a relationship w/ your parents, and they may not allow it, out of frustration. I've seen it happen before, and it is unfortunate. :(
 
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When this was my problem 20 years ago, I found civil disobediance worked rather well. Go if they make you, sit when they sit, stand when they stand and so on - but keep your mouth shut for the entire service, don't accept communion (my parents were R.C., adjust as necessary), don't shake hands, don't sing, etc., etc.
If that doesn't embarress them into copping on, talk to the priest and tell him you're being forced into attending.
Hope that helps.
 
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