Muslims hate Jews?

[M-16]

Are you guys tired of the same old crap about Muslims hating Jews?

Then read these two articles,

Muslims and Jews: a historical perspective that reveals surprises

The History of the Jews Under Islamic Rule

- M-16 spreading the Truth

 

[spidergoat]

How about some contemporary information? This article points out that anti-semitism is widespread among muslims, but also that exact data is difficult to obtain.

The historians Marvin Perry and Frederick M. Schweitzer may well be correct when they suggest in the introduction to their recent book, Anti-Semitism: Myth and Hate From Antiquity to the Present, that large segments of the billion-strong Muslim world may now endorse a full-blown anti-Semitism, replete with home-grown Islamic themes, new and old, as well as hate imagery imported from the Christian world. Such hatred does not seem to be limited to fringe elements, and it is not constrained by the geographical confines of the Middle East.

and

These days, more than a few leading Muslim clerics routinely denounce Jews with dehumanizing rhetoric. For example, in April 2002, Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi of Egypt, one of the most important Sunni clerics, described Jews in his weekly sermon as "the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs." Sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, the imam of the most important mosque in Mecca, similarly sermonized that the Jews are "the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs." The imam further advised Arabs to abandon all peace initiatives with Jews and asked Allah to annihilate them. Many leaders of Muslim countries enthusiastically greeted former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's similarly racist ranting.

 

[path]

Stop the presses! An islamic site that actually pedals *gulp* islamic propaganda.

 

[surenderer]

How about some contemporary information? This article points out that anti-semitism is widespread among muslims, but also that exact data is difficult to obtain.



and

Phony........How about Robertson and Falwell Hate speech?

http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://abcne...a223472415cbb5218281abda663&POS=8&CM=WPU&CE=8

http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://news....23472415cbb5218281abda663&POS=10&CM=WPP&CE=10


Even Jews admit that they have historically had better living under Muslim rule than under Christian rule

 

[path]

So why then were the majority of jews living under christian rule until the creation of isreal? In fact there are still more jews in "christan countries" than isreal. A quote or 2 doesn't change the facts on the ground.

 

[786]

So why then were the majority of jews living under christian rule until the creation of isreal? In fact there are still more jews in "christan countries" than isreal. A quote or 2 doesn't change the facts on the ground.

Well, If you are talking about Jews in America. Then the population of Muslims in america is also rising. This doesn't show anything. Some people go to America for studying, like me. Some for good money. Populations doesn't consider anything.

Peace be unto you

 

[path]

Well, If you are talking about Jews in America. Then the population of Muslims in america is also rising. This doesn't show anything. Some people go to America for studying, like me. Some for good money. Populations doesn't consider anything.

Peace be unto you

Wrong it is claimed by muslims that jews never had it better than when they lived under muslim rule. If that was truly the case they would have been stupid to go where thier lot is worse yet that is exactly what they did. A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[786]

Oh, well if you read the history. You will see that Christians have done many things to Jews. For example they were forced to convert to Christianity. They were banned from living. They were banned from being in the streets on the day of "easter" because they considerthis an act of insulting Christianity. There are many more. You can see this for yourself.

Peace be unto you

 

[path]

Of course christians have done many things to jews everyone knows this but if you look at history these sorts of pogroms happened to jews infrequently. One main factor you forget is that under muslim rule no new plkaces of worship are allowed to be built apart from mosques, not only that but you were not even permited to perform maintainence, so non-muslims were always squeezed out. Turkey just recently reluctantly gave permission for a new church the first time this has happened I believe.

 

[786]

Of course christians have done many things to jews everyone knows this but if you look at history these sorts of pogroms happened to jews infrequently. One main factor you forget is that under muslim rule no new plkaces of worship are allowed to be built apart from mosques, not only that but you were not even permited to perform maintainence, so non-muslims were always squeezed out. Turkey just recently reluctantly gave permission for a new church the first time this has happened I believe.

Well Jews had the freedom to embrace and preach their religion. Anyways about the worship place. You fail to know that a Jew is allowed in mosques. I have many Jews as friend, they told me that a Jew is allowed to worship in Mosques because we basically believe the same things. On the contrary jews cannot worship in churchs because Christians consider Jesus as God, and usually churches have a picture of Jesus on the cross, or of Mary.

This point should also be noted. But in terms that Jews were better in Muslim rule is still true, don't you think? At least better than the Christian rule, right?

Peace be unto you

 

[surenderer]

Wrong it is claimed by muslims that jews never had it better than when they lived under muslim rule. If that was truly the case they would have been stupid to go where thier lot is worse yet that is exactly what they did. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Thats not what I said.....I said that Muslims have treated jews in their countries better than Christians have The historic persecution of Jews by Christians and Romans all the way up to Hitler is unprecedented Although i do agree that muslims have also treated Jews harshly from time to time (and vice versa)but the scale of difference is huge

 

[surenderer]

Of course christians have done many things to jews everyone knows this but if you look at history these sorts of pogroms happened to jews infrequently. One main factor you forget is that under muslim rule no new plkaces of worship are allowed to be built apart from mosques, not only that but you were not even permited to perform maintainence, so non-muslims were always squeezed out. Turkey just recently reluctantly gave permission for a new church the first time this has happened I believe.

Again thats not true......Jews have always been allowed free worship in Muslim countries because they were considered "people of the book" as far as Turkey is concerend they are Secular and dont even count Anti Semetic behavior towards Jews wasnt widespread untill the start of Zionism with the creation of the state of Israel

 

[path]

Again thats not true......Jews have always been allowed free worship in Muslim countries because they were considered "people of the book" as far as Turkey is concerend they are Secular and dont even count Anti Semetic behavior towards Jews wasnt widespread untill the start of Zionism with the creation of the state of Israel

Obviously I will need to post some historical examples for you

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

It is not Judaism or Jewish ethnicity that Muslims hate, it is Zionism. You can thank the post-WWII Europeans for that. Instead of inviting the Jews back to be their neighbors, they decided to give them somebody else's homeland and just send them money and Mercedes-Benz buses. I'm sure most Jews would have been just as happy living in Paris or Rome instead of taking up the farming life of their distant ancestors.

I have read both types of accounts of Jewish life under Muslim rule and I am thoroughly convinced that Jews were indeed, for the most part, treated better in Islamic lands than they were in Christian lands. The reason that so many of them ended up in Christian lands is complicated, perhaps impossible to understand, but that does not mean that it contradicts this conclusion. People of every ethnicity have been migrating out of the Mideast by the thousands since the dawn of civilization, including Arabs and other Muslims. It has a fairly low population density by today's standards. Perhaps it's something in the water. ^_^

By the way, can we stop this utterly idiotic misuse of the word "anti-Semitic"? Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, and several other Mideastern peoples are all Semites. To be anti-Semitic is to hate them all. It's impossible for an Arab to be anti-Semitic unless he has some serious problems.

 

[okinrus]

Fraggle, the Jews at that time did not want to move back to Germany or anywhere else. Why would you want to move somewhere where millions of your race were killed? Germany also did eventually did pay restitution for the victims along with aid to Israel.

There was a Zionist movement before the war, but it gained support after WII because the Jews needed a homeland in order to protect themselves against racism. For instance, if some country decides to persecute Jews, the Jews can be assisted by Israel. Of course, Israel is not just the homeland of the Jews, and there are Arabs who call it their homeland as well. Two nationalities can have the same homeland, hence zionism is not exclusionary.

I have read both types of accounts of Jewish life under Muslim rule and I am thoroughly convinced that Jews were indeed, for the most part, treated better in Islamic lands than they were in Christian lands.

Depends on the age. Spain, Russia, and Poland are pretty notorious at times for their treatment of Jews. Many of Jews in Germany before Hitler were able to eke out a pretty good living.

Anti-semetic refers only to Jewish race(Webster).

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Again thats not true......Jews have always been allowed free worship in Muslim countries because they were considered "people of the book" as far as Turkey is concerend they are Secular and dont even count Anti Semetic behavior towards Jews wasnt widespread untill the start of Zionism with the creation of the state of Israel

if that were true, why did almost all Jews leave Arabic North Africa, Yemen, Iraq.

Before his death, why did Mohammad tell his followers that there should never be two religions in Arabia? Thus, making sure that both Jews & Christians could not live in Arabia ever. BTW, what was OBL's major beef against the US?

From:
http://www.jewishmag.com/57mag/dhimmi/dhimmi.htm

The Dhimmi is the Arabic term that refers to its non-Islamic embracing population that has the ignominious dishonor of living in Islamic conquered lands. In a similar manner to the Jewish reference to a non-Jew as being a goy, so too the term dhimmi refers to non-Muslims. However unlike the Jewish term, goy, and much more important, the dhimmi is a distinctly subjugated second class non-citizen almost slave who is subjected to dictatorial deprivation of any legal and human rights since he is a non-Muslim permanent resident in a Muslim state.
...

Both Jews and Christians alike suffered the ignominious life of having their fate decided upon the whim of despotic rulers. Although a legal definition of the dhimmi exists, that they must pay various taxes and tolls, that they must live a second class life and give deference to their Muslim neighbors, much of their tragic existence depended on the whims of despotic rulers and frenzied Arab mobs who denied them even the little that was given to them through Islamic law.
...

The manner in which the rules of dhimmitude were applied varied according to the political circumstances and the disposition of the ruler. There were periods of tolerance which gave a small degree of security to the dhimmis. However the fanaticism which could be riled up by the clergy could change the situation in small time. If the local Muslim population became intolerant or jealous of the successes of the dhimmi, then a pogrom would ensue. Communities could find themselves evicted, women raped, exorbitant ransoms placed on them, children abducted and forced to convert, and in other cases mass murders of the dhimmi population was condoned.
Rules would be formulated to deny the dhimmi due process of the law. Discriminatory and restrictive dress and behavior codes would be enacted and severely enforced to reduce the dhimmi into a state of despair and poverty. Dehumanization of the dhimmi was not uncommon, and generally the rule. Various forms of physical abuse were common.
...

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Well Jews had the freedom to embrace and preach their religion. Anyways about the worship place. You fail to know that a Jew is allowed in mosques. I have many Jews as friend, they told me that a Jew is allowed to worship in Mosques because we basically believe the same things. On the contrary jews cannot worship in churchs because Christians consider Jesus as God, and usually churches have a picture of Jesus on the cross, or of Mary.

This point should also be noted. But in terms that Jews were better in Muslim rule is still true, don't you think? At least better than the Christian rule, right?

Peace be unto you :<)

I guess no one ever bothered to ask Jews what they preferred, but my guess would be that they would want a brand-spanking new synagogue?
Why would they want to use a mosque, or even have to?
The god of islam is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Don't be so silly

 

[786]

I guess no one ever bothered to ask Jews what they preferred, but my guess would be that they would want a brand-spanking new synagogue?
Why would they want to use a mosque, or even have to?
The god of islam is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Don't be so silly

Well, hello there Randolfo.

I'm not surprised that you jumped into this debate. Well the part about the God of Islam is different then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is wrong. But I don't expect you to take my word for it.

We can have a lengthy debate on this issue. I don't want to ruin the purpose of this thread. So I recommend you open a NEW thread about this issue. You can present your claims, and I can present mine. This will be a long, but very interesting debate. So I leave the choice to you. If you want to discuss this thoroughly then open a new thread. But if you just want to make claims without support then make whatever claims you want. I leave the choice to you.

Peace be unto you

 

[surenderer]

Before his death, why did Mohammad tell his followers that there should never be two religions in Arabia?

Simply put the Prophet(pbuh) was saying that the only religion in Arabia was the one that worshipped God.(remember what Arabia was like before with pagan Gods idols etc....)

Thus, making sure that both Jews & Christians could not live in Arabia ever.

Thats silly to say because the Prophet(pbuh) LIVED side by side with Christians and Jews himself

BTW, what was OBL's major beef against the US?

sigh....here we go again Do you want me to use Hitler as an example for Christians? OBL doesnt represent majority muslim thinking if he did the world would be much worse than it is now believe me

if that were true, why did almost all Jews leave Arabic North Africa, Yemen, Iraq.

Well if that is indeed true then the obvious answer is that those countries were close to where Israel was created....If Islam was so terrible to them then why do you think that there was so many living there in the 1st place?

 

[path]

Treatment of jews under islamic rule has historically been a totally subjective affair, there were rulers who were benevolent towards them and others who despised them similar to what was witnessed historically in christian lands.
Of course we don't hear of many historical complaints about life under muslim rule because it was expressly FORBIDDEN for jews or christians to complain doing so cancelled your protection officially.

Causes related to the Muslim society:
1. The idea that Jews and Christians have suffered under Islamic law is totally rejected by the dominant group - the Muslims, and this for several reasons based on theological grounds:
a) Islamic law cannot be defective since it must be perfect, being considered a divine law. Therefore it cannot be unjust and the suffering of infidels under that rule is deserved since it represent the justice of Allah.
b) The shari'a should not be criticized, and Christians and Jews cannot say it has any defect whatsoever.
c) While, in the Bible, the religious function should be separated from the political one, in Islam political and religious power must be united. The non-separation of politic and religion confer a fixed religious and sacred caracter to politics.
d) An absence of Muslim support on behalf of dhimmis since the conception of their relations with non-Muslims is determined by the principles of jihad and protection, which granted to the Muslims the feeling of being generous. Without this "passport" of protection (aman), no harbi - the name for all non-Muslims from the dar al-harb, the region of war - could enter the dar al-Islam, the region of Islam, unless he accepted to become a dhimmi

article

From 1910 Yemen by the imam Yahya, before any state of isreal

The jews must not
1)Raise thier voices in front of muslims
2)Build houses higher than the houses of muslims
3)Brush against muslims whilst passing in the street
4)Carry on the same trade as the arabs
5)Say that muslim law can have a defect
6)Insult the prophets
7)Discuss religion with muslims
8)Ride animals with a saddle
9)Screw up thier eyes in perceiving the nudity of muslims
10)Carry on thier religious devotions out side thier places of worship
11)Raise thier voices during prayers
12)Sound the shofar with much noise
13)Lend money at interest, which can bring about the destruction of the world
14)They must always rise in front of muslims and honor them in all circumstances

And it was unlawful for a jew to testify against a muslim in an islamic court, so basically you can do anything to a jew and get away with it.

More later