muslims are more christians than christians.

scifes said:
jesus, begotten or not?
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I love the part where he says "The moment God begets he is not God". In fact he was even implying that he equated the immaculate conception with God having actual sexual intercourse with Mary.

Two questions:

1) How could an immaculate conception (without sexual intercourse) be beyond the ability of an omnipotent being?

2) How could such a miracle somehow compromise that omnipotence?

These are of course rhetorical questions, since omnipotence quite obviously allows for such possibilities.

alcohol in the bible.
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What Muslims don't seem to understand about Christian theology is that the Old Testament has essentially been superseded by the New Testament. This does not mean that the OT was not divine revelation, but rather that God now has a new covenant with mankind through Jesus that is less about a legalistic adherence to rules and regulations and more about being genuinely aligned with the true spirit of his teachings.

In any case, the first miracle of Jesus was to turn water into wine for people who had run out of it. Further, the Apostle Paul once instructed Timothy to add a little wine to his diet to help with his frequent illnesses (1 Timothy 5:23).

Since the NT basically is Christianity, and since it clearly doesn't forbid the moderate consumption of alcohol (moderate because drunkenness definitely is a sin), then any suggestion that it is more Christian not to consume it is born of ignorance.
 
scifes said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sREemKFBJX8

matters to discuss:

jesus, begotten or not?

alcohol in the bible.

converted in 8 mins?
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The video was a deception. A False representation of the Bible.

Issue 1
Begotten. Does not mean God has sexual intercourse with Mary. Jesus was not created from Gods sperm and Marys egg. Begotten in the case of God means that Jesus came into this world totally by the power of God. Mary was like a surrogate not a genetic mother of Jesus.

Adam was created. And while at the time of creation He was a better human being then of his descendants for he was good. He was not begotten because he was not born. He was created.

The preaching this muslim did was classical twisting of scripture directed to a "chirsitan" ???? And i doubt he was a Christian, he was a islamic plant. At the time because he started his question by saying Jesus peace be upon him. Christians Do Not Do this. Saying peace be upon him is muslim practice. As if perfect Jesus needs the blessings of sinfull human beings, what a farce.

Ok next issue.

Pork is declared non Kosher in the Old testament. But Jesus teachings made it clear that keeping the kosher diet earned anyone self-justification into Eternity with God. This is the pompous lie that many Jews had fallen into during the times of Jesus. Believing that they where justified by what they eat. Jesus said what really defiled a person was what came out of their mouths. Not what went into them.

While i believe Kosher eating laws stipulated in the OT lead one to the best diet humans can have. It does not cause one to be justified before God. Righteousness has nothing to do with what one eats or drinks and it is the hight of stupidity to preach such as the muslim did. What is true as ask any Jew. the muslims do not fully follow Kosher law anyway. So even by the Laws established in the OT the muslims fail to follow the diet guidance of God.

Next Issue

Alcohol. There is no law in the bible that says a man cannot drink alcohol. Jesus turned water into wine as his first sign. I see how this muslim never quoted that verse. Jesus drank wine and made it part of his last supper memorial meal that Christians take part in.

The OT does tell mankind not to get Drunk/intoxicated with alcohol. But muslims as well as some supposed christian denominations have changed this by their own traditions to place a ban on alcohol.

The quran even says that in paradise there will be rivers of wine

In Sura 5:92; 2:219, Allah forbids Muslims from taking wine while
on planet earth, but those going to Aljana are promised rivers of wine of
many enticing varieties (Sura 47:15; 76:6):

- There is the promise of pure sealed wine (Sura 83:25)
- Zanjabil enhanced wine (Sura 76:17)
- Tasnim brand of wine (Sura 83:27)
- Wine mixed with kafur (Sura 76:5)

So the declaration that wine drinking is evil is a hypocrisy when they state quite clearly that this stuff is going to be consumed in copious amounts in eternity. If wine is so evil then why is it in their paradise?


Next issue:
Circumcision: He stated that Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day. Yes he was. But then this muslim stated that because Jesus was circumcised then It was his teaching??? Is this islamic moron brain dead or what? No the law for Circumcision was established in the OT. It was a sign of that OT covenant with Abraham. It was never a sign of the New covenant of justification by Faith through the Messiah Jesus. He statement that Christians are not circumcised is also a lie. I am a Christian and i am circumcised It was the policy of the Australian health authorities during the time of my birth to circumcise boys, this was a health improvement policy that came about by the experience of WW1 where it was found circumcised troops in the Australian army where lass likely to suffer from disease and complications in that area due to the dirty conditions that troops found themselves in for months at a time in the trenches of WW1.

So while i believe that it is a healthier option for a boy to be circumcised. Again it is not something that Changes a person into a Good person. Circumcision has absolutely Nothing to do with ones morality standards nor does it make someone sinless.

Next issue;
The muslims preacher stated that Jesus was referring to muhammed in the Gospel as the one who would come after to tell them what they could not bear at the time. The following is the incident recorded in scripture.

John 16
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit who came to the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost. Jesus was not talking about some demented bloody thirsty cult establisher who came to prominence through his violence on the Saudi peninsular. A man who definitely did not turn his cheek and love his enemies.


You will also see in the video the typical gesticulation of the finger jabbing islamic preacher waving and jabbing his finger into the air like it means he is somehow moral or upstanding or justified. He should do more reading of the OT:

Isaiah 58
9 Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer;
You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’
“ If you take away the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,

And

Proverbs 6
12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.

You take a look at most muslims preachers when there in full throttle the finger jabbing is going everywhere.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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