Multiple terror attacks in Mumbai

[skywalker]

Oh goody, no chance of going to war anytime soon, then.

Next time we should have a media blackout and avoid giving so much media coverage to the terrorists.

Once they realise no one cares, they'll stop banging their heads on our walls.

Exactly, if BJP were in power they would have atleast try to move the troops like they did last time and lost around 800 men, just during mobilization. I wonder what is bal thahkray doing right now.. or the party members of bajrang blee... planning to kill anothe few thousand in Gujrat?

 

[hypewaders]

Truly sad. But in my understanding, that Indian street cops are not well-equipped for firefights does not mean that they do not serve a purpose, on normal days and not-so-normal. Whether their deaths, or those of all the other victims serve the purposes of terrorists or not depends on our response, and I don't mean in terms of ready deadly force. The message of humanity's software (not hardware) response has a far greater deterrent potential than replacing each poor policemen with up-armored __________ (insert the Indian version of Blackwater-Schwarzenegger-combat-cops).

Let's not look down our noses at the sacrifices of Indian Policemen, and make assumptions about their seemingly self-sacrificial methods of overpowering these terrorists (who were not so tactically impressive in my view, BTW).

Whether Indian cops with old carbines and sticks are really less effective in terms of present and future deterrence than (for example) better-trained, better-equipped US cops, is far from clear. Successful killers gear up for the targets they attack. For example, what al-Qaeda couldn't do from the streets of New York they did from the air, and it's folly to assume that there are not remaining weaknesses to exploit. The methods of carnage, and even the methods of halting carnage matter far less than society's non-military response.

So far, India is responding less disruptively in the world than the USA would be prone to do- which is saying a lot, considering the far-reaching ethnic fault-lines running through South Asia. Let's not get so wrapped up in the Hollywood weapons-worship that we ignore the reality that this carnage really is not a contest of arms. It is a contest of principles.

 

[skywalker]

Truly sad. But in my understanding, that Indian street cops are not well-equipped for firefights It is a contest of principles.

No one is saying that they are not brave enough or they didnt do their job.. my point was simple, you can't conclude investigation in 10hrs and you can't do your job right when you have no training and you are inferior in training and equipment. So to come to conclusion and making utter stupid statements like indian media and police is making is nothing but nonsense and shouldn't point fingers at every one but themselves.. That was the point.

 

[hypewaders]

I didn't intend to criticize your criticism of confusion in India, skywalker. But if Indians were reacting with significantly less institutional confusion- if the gears of government were clicking like those of Germans, or USAmericans... Well, then I'd truly be afraid for us all.

 

[Asguard]

skywalker you have to take into acount how many senior officers are on the list of the dead as well, few organisations could withstand those sorts of losses AND have to conduct this sort of investigation with the media and political pressure as well without a few screw ups. Basically cut them some slack

 

[skywalker]

I didn't intend to criticize your criticism of confusion in India, skywalker. But if Indians were reacting with significantly less institutional confusion- if the gears of government were clicking like those of Germans, or USAmericans... Well, then I'd truly be afraid for us all.

I agree, I don't think that they will go for a war, they already have their hands full with 50-60 different freedom struggles within their country and the elections, and don't forget the whole bjp and other hindu extremists parties are dying to gain the power so they can start more genocides. Only USA and Russia can take those rapid actions with their unlimited resources not India.

 

[skywalker]

skywalker you have to take into acount how many senior officers are on the list of the dead as well, few organisations could withstand those sorts of losses AND have to conduct this sort of investigation with the media and political pressure as well without a few screw ups. Basically cut them some slack

Okay. I let it go.. But it is sad to see their police and media making all kind of false claims, without even knowning 1% of the truth. But I be quite... for now. :m:

 

[hypewaders]

Dammit, what's wrong with you. Don't you dare shut up- we're not even disagreeing.


Um, right...

:yawn:

:wave:

:sleep:

 

[Asguard]

Sam there is one thing i belive in very strongly. The police should ALWAYS have access to more firepower than anything they are going to come up against. I say access because i dont want police driving around in tanks (for starters tanks are slow and they tend to go over the other cars and block up the trafic) but if they need anything to overpower people like this they should be able to access it, be it automatic rifles, tanks or even RAAF fighter planes in the event that the suspects were using armed hellicopters. Not really a huge problem in australia, (most cops here are killed because they are ambused), not so easy in countries like the US where high powered weapons are freely avilable. This doesnt just mean giving the police higher powered weapons but making sure that the legislative frame work and enforcements are in place to make sure the police dont HAVE to go up against millatry grade equiptment.

Sam an honest question, what sort of revinue does the indian goverment\s have?
you have said before that the sorts of social nets which exist in countries like Australia dont exist in India, that if you cant pay you stave. You have also said (i belive) that freely avilable health care ALSO doesnt exist or is pitiful. Now we see that the police force is serverly under resorced and that inspite of what you have said about being proud of the fact indian cops go unarmed its probably not a choice but rather apears to be a LACK of weapons to go around that is the issue.

Basically what DOES tax money pay for in india?
the cricket?????

 

[everneo]

Okay. I let it go.. But it is sad to see their police and media making all kind of false claims, without even knowning 1% of the truth. But I be quite... for now. :m:

Pakistan already declared that the terrorists were 'non-state actors' in pakistan.. (read "Lashkar-e-Toiba"). If you still hide terrorists like LeT, please remember that their guns are right now pointing at your ass.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam there is one thing i belive in very strongly. The police should ALWAYS have access to more firepower than anything they are going to come up against. I say access because i dont want police driving around in tanks (for starters tanks are slow and they tend to go over the other cars and block up the trafic) but if they need anything to overpower people like this they should be able to access it, be it automatic rifles, tanks or even RAAF fighter planes in the event that the suspects were using armed hellicopters. Not really a huge problem in australia, (most cops here are killed because they are ambused), not so easy in countries like the US where high powered weapons are freely avilable. This doesnt just mean giving the police higher powered weapons but making sure that the legislative frame work and enforcements are in place to make sure the police dont HAVE to go up against millatry grade equiptment.

Sam an honest question, what sort of revinue does the indian goverment\s have?
you have said before that the sorts of social nets which exist in countries like Australia dont exist in India, that if you cant pay you stave. You have also said (i belive) that freely avilable health care ALSO doesnt exist or is pitiful. Now we see that the police force is serverly under resorced and that inspite of what you have said about being proud of the fact indian cops go unarmed its probably not a choice but rather apears to be a LACK of weapons to go around that is the issue.

Basically what DOES tax money pay for in india?
the cricket?????

This is where you tell the difference between the haves and the have nots. India's major budget expenses are agriculture, education and infrastructure, with a hefty chunk [10-15%] going for defence.

 

[Asguard]

cleaned as far back as reasonably possable.

Stay on topic or i will lock it for good

 

[skywalker]

Pakistan already declared that the terrorists were 'non-state actors' in pakistan.. (read "Lashkar-e-Toiba"). If you still hide terrorists like LeT, please remember that their guns are right now pointing at your ass.

Easy there my cow loving friend. I was merely pointing out a fact that indians are pathetic liars, they lied about many other terrorists activities and they are lying again about everything, ever watched an indian tv? They are making it sound like some sort of bollywood movie, minus the stupid songs... ha. Anyways, Indians are still lying and can't investigate jack shit. Now the funny thing is, they can't do anything at all even if they know who did it... which they don't. let say, it was Pakistan based terrorists ( no denying that there are huge terrorists activities in that country ), but what can India do? NOTHING... they do politics on dead bodies, that is india, that is what they do best... then they are attention whores, they want attention and beg USA to stop selling pakistan F16s... that is their first demand always... what a bunch of rubbish. So far they have killed atleat 30 terrorists, 10 escaped 1 got captured who has been singing songs since he got captured about his family and what color of cloths he was wearing and why he had to take a bus insstead of a cab etc etc.. all the usual garbage... Tell your friends in india to go get those damn terrorits and stop making stupid lies and excuses for their incompetent behavior.

 

[S.A.M.]

Apparently all the terrorists are from Pakistan.

Suspects wanted by India in the attacks on Mumbai will be tried in Pakistan if there is concrete evidence against them, President Asif Ali Zardari said on Tuesday.
He told Larry King in an interview from Islamabad that if proof of wrongdoing surfaced, the men would be tried in Pakistani courts and sentenced.
The state of Pakistan is in no way responsible for the Mumbai attacks, he said, which were the work of ‘stateless’, meaning non-state, actors. Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, he said in answer to a question, is a banned organisation in Pakistan and all around the world. “If indeed they are involved, we would not know. Again, they are people who operate outside the system.

So Lashkar e Toiba it is.

 

[everneo]

let say, it was Pakistan based terrorists ( no denying that there are huge terrorists activities in that country ), but what can India do? NOTHING...

So, Pakistan would not do anything to crack down the terrorists there. This shows being a terrorist is natural thing in Pakistan. You loonies are surviving just because of USA aid.

 

[draqon]

Apparently all the terrorists are from Pakistan.

obviously everyone forgot about the 4 english citizens terrorists of Mumbai attack.

 

[DiamondHearts]

Apparently all the terrorists are from Pakistan.

So Lashkar e Toiba it is.

To further complicate matters.

Lashkar denies role in Bombay Bombing, which it also formally condemns.

"Let (Lashkar-e-Taiba) condemns such acts and we have no link with those responsible for such acts.

"Linking us with the strikes in Bombay (Mumbai) is an attempt to malign the ongoing freedom struggle in Kashmir.

"We demand an independent international inquiry into the incident so that the truth comes out before the whole World,"

http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-52392.html

It is important to realize that Lashkar e Taiba is a guerrilla movement which enjoyed widespread support in Kashmir for its operations against the Indian military. It has never been a terrorist group, unless attacking occupying soldiers is deemed as terrorism.

The terrorists who are said to have fired in Cama hospital talked to an employee clad in civil dress in Marathi, reports a Marathi daily 'Maharashtra Times'.

The newspaper said the terrorists who targeted ATS chief Hemant Karkare, police commissioner Ashok Kamte and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar were speaking Marathi fluently.

The newspaper claims the terrorists having fired at two watchmen in uniform asked the other beside them on gunpoint in Marathi, 'You are here an employee?' The employee caught the legs of the terrorist and said, 'I am not working here. My wife has suffered from heart attack and I have come here to admit her.' The terrorist asked him again in Marathi, 'You are speaking true or false?' The employee answered, 'No, by God I am speaking true.'

On this the terrorist let him go.

http://www.twocircles.net/2008nov29/mumbai_attack_terrorists_spoke_marathi.html

Kalava (Sanskrit: कलावा) is the sacred Hindu thread. It is worn while performing Hindu rituals like Yajna or Puja. It is tied by a priest on the wrists of all the people attending the prayer ceremony. Kalava is tied on right hand of males and unmarried females, and on left hand of married females. Sometimes it has small yellow parts in between the mostly red string. [Wiki]

Rakhi, a saffron colored string, is tied by a married sister on her brothers hand.

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/evidence-being-deliberately-ignored/

A better explanation is needed.

 

[Bells]

A better explanation is needed.

I would suggest you go back and look at the images you posted. The terrorist is not wearing a similar band to what is known as the Kalava. The band he is wearing looks like a plastic type of bracelet with writing on it. Kalava's usually do not as far as I am aware.

And you are correct. A better explanation is needed.

INDIAN newspapers said today the Government had proof that Pakistan's military spy agency was involved in the Mumbai attacks, including evidence supplied by the US Federal Bureau of Investigation.

"The Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) connection was clear and evident," the Times of India quoted Indian intelligence sources as saying.

The ISI is Pakistan's main spy agency.

The Hindu newspaper said investigations into the Mumbai attack had led to the names of handlers and trainers of the Islamist gunmen and the locations where the training was held.

These were believed to be military or ISI men.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24755541-401,00.html

Maybe Pakistan can attempt to explain the link to their top spy agency. Hmmm?

And while you may be attempting to deny blame to the group in question.. you might want them to explain this as well:

FRESH evidence unearthed by investigators in India indicates that the Mumbai attacks were stage-managed from at least two Pakistani cities by top leaders of the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

The names of two top Lashkar leaders, Yusuf Muzammil and Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, came from interrogations of the surviving attacker, Ajmal Kasab, 21, according to Rakesh Maria, a deputy police commissioner in India.

While Muzammil helped co-ordinate the attacks from the Pakistan city of Lahore, Lakhvi, his boss and the operational commander of Lashkar, worked from Karachi, according to investigators. It appears that both men were in contact with their charges as they sailed to Mumbai from Karachi, and then continued guiding the attacks even as they unfolded.

Some of the calls appeared to be conversations about who would live and who would die among the gunmen's hostages, according to an official who interviewed survivors.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/poli...-to-lashkar-chiefs-20081205-6si9.html?page=-1

Seems like the guerrilla group has grown up and moved on to bigger things now.

 

[MacGyver1968]

What is Marathi? What was the importance of the attackers speaking this?

 

[Ghost_007]

Apparently all the terrorists are from Pakistan.

So Lashkar e Toiba it is.

Any proof?

Indian authorities claimed some of the terrorists were British Pakistanis, this was denied by the UK Gov. and that was that.

The accusations and finger pointing resemble India's response to the attack - they do not know what is going on, even now they probably don't know how many people were killed (and how many were killed by the security forces).

The whole incident proves Indian authorities cannot be taken seriously. If they want to make accusations let them show proof.