More Ukrainian Events

[youreyes]

Will Putin continue his false flag ops? That remains to be seen. Will he continue to fund and send Russian operatives into the region? I think we will have to wait and see.

well the Chechens are doing a great job sniping out the Academi militia US sent to Slavyansk and Donetsk. Unfortunately the rebel cascade has ended with Donetsk and Lugansk and Harkiv is unable to amass a counterforce to the illigitimate current Ukraine power group. The key to winning this war is to further increase funding of the pro-Russian rebels, prioritize the media propaganda with current Ukranian militia leaving their posts and ammunition in favor of rebels.

Furthermore something must be done about West Ukraine, the destabilization of the region and proper actions will ensure that the US inserted Ukraine president will be discredited as much as possible. Gazprom should stop gas entirely. All of the West Ukraine including Kiev companies' cooperation should be outlawed and heavily sanctioned by Moscow side. The Odessa region is key in this, they must receive as much funding as possible. The pawn by the name of Poroshenko will not stand long even if US loans billions.

It is obvious that the result of this confrontation will be either a hostile second take over Kiev government or...division of a country into 3 parts, pro-US West Ukraine, pro-Russian East Ukraine, and Crimea. It is also obvious that in a case of a division of a country US will install its own military bases right next to the Russian border, in this case a counter action must be made to remove such bases. Cuba.

 

[youreyes]

I still dont' understand why we, the rest of the world, care about this... let them sort out their own issues...

Because USA or "we" has invested billions into this operation in Ukraine. The final result that Americans want is a exclusively pro-US government functioning in Ukraine with US military bases operating and US rocket bases installed in Ukraine right next to Russia. The threat and show of power is not a pre-means to war but an illegitimate excuse to push one's agendas in the region, companies' agendas for resources for example.

 

[joepistole]

Because USA or "we" has invested billions into this operation in Ukraine. The final result that Americans want is a exclusively pro-US government functioning in Ukraine with US military bases operating and US rocket bases installed in Ukraine right next to Russia. The threat and show of power is not a pre-means to war but an illegitimate excuse to push one's agendas in the region, companies' agendas for resources for example.

And what resources would those be exactly? In addition to that good old Stalin era paranoia, you have been hitting the Kool Aid.

 

[Yazata]

CNN reports that heavy fighting has broken out in eastern Ukraine today, June 4.

http://m.cnn.com/primary/cnnd_fulla...sis&branding=&pagesize=10&category=cnnd_world

Both sides' claims aren't entirely credible, but something is happening.

The Kiev government claims to have killed 300 militants and wounded more than 500 in Krasny Limon and Slovyansk. They put their own losses at 2 dead and 45 wounded. Even CNN, which is generally quite pro-Kiev, expresses skepticism about these numbers. (If true, most of the pro-Russian fighters in those two towns would be casulties, but both towns haven't been overrun.) The pro-Russian mayor of Slovyansk puts his side's losses at 10 dead and 12 wounded.

For their part, the rebels are claiming to have shot down two Ukrainian jets, two helicopters and destroyed one tank and four armored personnel carriers. (That might not be entirely credible either.)

There's video on the internet of a hospital and the nearby railroad station in Krasny Limon which reportedly were hit by rockets.

Separately, in Luhansk oblast, the Kiev government is admitting that two of its camps there were overrun by rebels. One camp belonged to the Border Guards, the other to the "National Guard". They say that there was a 12 hour battle at the Border Guard camp, after which the guards withdrew. Kiev reports that the 'National Guard' camp surrendered after its defenders ran out of ammunition.

I'm not sure what the Ukrainian 'National Guard' is. Is this a Western journalistic way of referring to the Interior Ministry's domestic security forces? Or does it refer to a new force of pro-Maidan volunteers that Kiev's been recruiting and (kinda) training since the recent Maidan revolution? There do seem to be pro-Kiev irregular forces operating in the east of the country, perhaps because their loyalty is more trustworthy than the regular military's.

Whatever the answer is to that, the forces attacking Slovyansk and Krasny Limon appear to be regular military, including armor and air. Reportedly they are elite paratroops, perhaps chosen not only for their prowess, but because they are considered more reliable than some of the regular infantry reservists who aren't really all that interested in fighting.

 

[joepistole]

CNN reports that heavy fighting has broken out in eastern Ukraine today, June 4.

http://m.cnn.com/primary/cnnd_fulla...sis&branding=&pagesize=10&category=cnnd_world

Both sides' claims aren't entirely credible, but something is happening.

The Kiev government claims to have killed 300 militants and wounded more than 500 in Krasny Limon and Slovyansk. They put their own losses at 2 dead and 45 wounded. Even CNN, which is generally quite pro-Kiev, expresses skepticism about these numbers. (If true, most of the pro-Russian fighters in those two towns would be casulties, but both towns haven't been overrun.) The pro-Russian mayor of Slovyansk puts his side's losses at 10 dead and 12 wounded.

For their part, the rebels are claiming to have shot down two Ukrainian jets, two helicopters and destroyed one tank and four armored personnel carriers. (That might not be entirely credible either.)

There's video on the internet of a hospital and the nearby railroad station in Krasny Limon which reportedly were hit by rockets.

Separately, in Luhansk oblast, the Kiev government is admitting that two of its camps there were overrun by rebels. One camp belonged to the Border Guards, the other to the "National Guard". They say that there was a 12 hour battle at the Border Guard camp, after which the guards withdrew. Kiev reports that the 'National Guard' camp surrendered after its defenders ran out of ammunition.

I'm not sure what the Ukrainian 'National Guard' is. Is this a Western journalistic way of referring to the Interior Ministry's domestic security forces? Or does it refer to a new force of pro-Maidan volunteers that Kiev's been recruiting and (kinda) training since the recent Maidan revolution? There do seem to be pro-Kiev irregular forces operating in the east of the country, perhaps because their loyalty is more reliable than the regular military's.

Whatever the answer is to that, the forces attacking Slovyansk and Krasny Limon appear to be regular military, including armor and air. Reportedly they are elite paratroops, perhaps chosen not only for their prowess, but because they are considered more loyal than some of the regular infantry reservists who aren't really all that interested in fighting.

Well, it is more accurate to describe Pro-Kiev as pro Ukrainian, because it is more than just Kiev as reflected in the results of the recent election. Yes there are Pro-Ukrainian irregulars, many of them are miners. It is going to get bloody as Putin keeps sending in irregular forces from Russia. But I think the writing is on the wall. Putin will not prevail. All he can do now without risking further Western sanctions is to send in his irregular/special forces and try to destabilize the country. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/05/31/228992/russian-pullback-from-ukraine.html

Ukraine needs to strengthen its security forces. Since it gained independence, it has been a Russian vassal state and Russia has never been interested or supportive of a strong Ukrainian security force. And over time, perhaps a year or so, I think the Ukrainians will successfully beef up Ukrainian security forces. And as a result, I don't see Russia wining either the conflict or the hearts and minds of Ukrainians. But undoubtedly much blood will be spilled.

 

[Yazata]

CNN is reporting what appears to have been a Ukrainian Air Force airstrike on the building housing the administration of the separatist Luhansk oblast in the city of Luhansk.

http://m.cnn.com/primary/cnnd_fulla.../europe/ukraine-luhansk-building-attack#page2

It doesn't seem to have gone very well, since most of the casulties seem to have been innocent passers-by in a nearby park and on the street outside. The locals put the number of casulties at 8 dead (five women and three men) and about 20 wounded.

The Kiev government says that its aircraft were flying overhead at the time, in support of a besieged border-guards base several miles away at the edge of town, but deny that the aircraft were responsible for the casulties. They attribute then to a rebel shoulder-fired MANPADS whose infrared seeker homed in on an airconditioner.

But both CNN's reporters and OSCE monitors on the scene say that the evidence they saw is consistent with air attack, perhaps 30mm strafing and/or rockets. There was a line of impacts leading from the adjoining park where trees were shredded to the building where windows were blown out and holes were seen amidst signs of shrapnel. CNN subsequently spoke to the European editor of Janes Defense Weekly in London who said that description appears consistent with the armament of an SU-25 Frogfoot ground-support aircraft.

 

[joepistole]

The G7 leaders threatened more sanctions, sector sanctions, on Russia today if Russia continues to violate Ukrainian sovereignty.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27707518

"How can we allow the dark tactics of the 20th Century to define the 21st?" he said. - President Obama

German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters: "We can't afford a further destabilisation of Ukraine."

"We have made clear that we want to continue with our three-step approach - support Ukraine in economic issues, talks with Russia, and should there no progress on all those issues... the possibility of sanctions, tougher sanctions, remains on the table," she said. - Chancellor Merkel

"The rise of fascism is Russia's single biggest threat and could rip the country apart unless checked, the architect of Russia's post-Soviet economic reforms warned on Wednesday." http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/15/us-russia-summit-chubais-idUSTRE68E58W20100915

WWII was fought some seventy years ago, but the memories of the horror are still raw. Millions of Europeans lost their lives in that war. While Putin might be anxious to repeat that bit of history, the rest of us are not.

Russia/Putin continues to send armed irregulars across the border and into Ukraine to reek havoc and destabilize the country. That is Putin's game plan. It's his attempt to avoid further sanctions. But as long as he continues to occupy Crimea and destabilize the region, sanctions will remain on the table.

 

[joepistole]

Because USA or "we" has invested billions into this operation in Ukraine. The final result that Americans want is a exclusively pro-US government functioning in Ukraine with US military bases operating and US rocket bases installed in Ukraine right next to Russia. The threat and show of power is not a pre-means to war but an illegitimate excuse to push one's agendas in the region, companies' agendas for resources for example.

And where is your evidence the US has invested billions in Ukraine? You have none. Because none exists. What interest would the US have in military bases in Ukraine? None, absolutely none. Thanks to Putin's recent invasion of Ukraine more of Russia's neighbors (e.g. Poland) want US military bases on their lands. As a result, the US has sent and stationed a few hundred troops in Poland where none existed before. US forces are now on the Russian border in places like Latvia, a direct result of Putin's repeated invasions and annexations of his neighbors. They were not there before Putin began his militarism, invasions and annexations.

The West has ignored Ukraine for two decades. It doesn't have much in the way of resources. And it has been and will be a basket case for some time to come. It requires significant investment. But it won't get that if it cannot stabilize its government. The issue for the West, isn't the Ukraine. It is Russia and Putin's Nazi like behavior. He is repeating Hitler's playbook. And that is a threat to world peace, not because Russia is a great military power. Because it isn't. But it does have some nukes. And in a nuclear war, no one wins.


If Russia wants respect and trust, it needs to earn it. You don't earn respect and trust with rampant corruption and by invading and annexing your neighbors as Russia has repeatedly done. The barrel of a gun normal engenders fear, not trust. There are good reasons why former Soviet client states fled Mother Russia for the West. There are good reasons why Russia had to erect fences to keep people from fleeing to the West.

Ironically, now that Russia has violated international law and invaded its neighbors, there will be more US troops stationed near Russian borders as more and more of Russia's neighbors request a US presence. Because more and more of Russia's neighbors want more and more US protection. Putin's invasions has given them reason for concern. And the US will now, as a direct result of Putin's aggression, will send billions in aid to Ukraine whereas none was forthcoming prior to Putin's invasions. So if Russia wants to "protect" its borders from the US, meaning keeping US troops as far away as possible, Putin's policies are having the exact opposite effect. Putin is making a great case for deployment of the US's missile defense systems in Europe.

So if what you say about Russia's motivations are true, Russia's policies, Putin's policies are an utter and complete failure. Because they are having the exact opposite effect of what you say they were intended to do. I think it far more likely, that Russia's policies are more driven by Putin's needs than those of Mother Russia. The Russian economy had been faltering and with it, Putin's popularity. So what better way to improve ones popularity than a little military action and raising the flag of nationalism?

Putin is boxed in by his corruption. Putin cannot leave office or his power, because he knows his corruption would likely lead to his arrest and spending the rest of his life in a jail cell. Putin like other dictators before him, must be dictator for life if he wants to stay out of a jail cell. The way to do that is eliminating the free press, strengthen his control, raising nationalistic emotions and finding an enemy to blame as he has done...a move right out of Hitler's playbook.

It is interesting to note, that after spending so much time trying to get into the G7, Putin was kicked out because of his invasions and annexations. So where is Putin now? He is in Brussels where the G7 meeting is now underway. Putin is trying to meet with world leaders individually since he cannot meet with them as a group...not really consistent with the Cesar image Putin wants to sell to the world.

 

[CptBork]

Alexander Lukashenko, Bashar Assad, Ayatollah Khamenei, Kim Jong Un... Yeah, Putin keeps some real swell friends around, and he protects democracy and homosexuals around the globe. I'd let my economy depend on him any time.

 

[Yazata]

It appears that Ukrainian paratroopers retook Krasny Limon (a railroad junction town of about 20,000 inhabitants) on Thursday. Reports are that the Ukrainian flag was flying above the city hall on Thursday afternoon and a new pro-Kiev mayor was appointed Friday. Reporters entering the town verify that one of the two hospitals is destroyed, seemingly by air attack. Ukrainian military and armor are digging in all around the town.

Apparently the rebels holding Krasny Limon thought it the better part of valor to pull out rather than try to defend the town against elite Ukrainian paratroopers with armor and air support.

Rebels near nearby Slovyansk are dismissive of the Krasny Limon rebels for withdrawing, but that's actually the thing to do in assymmetrical insurgent warfare where the militarily superior enemy always wants to lure undergunned insurgents into conventional set-piece battle. The insurgent idea is to hit the enemy where they are vulnerable and then melt away when he gathers his forces. (Worked for the Viet Cong then and for the Taliban now.)

The Ukrainians are still moving regular military forces into their tightening ring around the larger town of Slovyansk. It isn't clear if they are planning to assault the town and want to prevent its defenders from escaping, or whether they plan to try to starve them out. Food is already getting harder to find in the city. (Something like 100,000 civilians live there.)

It also isn't clear what Kiev intends to do with Donetsk's airport, which their paratroops seized several days ago. Donetsk is a different kind of animal, a large city of a million people. There's a danger of street fighting with the numerous insurgents there if the city is assaulted.

For their part, the rebels seem to have growing manpower. New insurgent roadblocks and positions seem to be popping up all over, according to reporters on the scene. Many of them are manned by local pro-Russian Ukrainians. But Russians from Russia seem to be coming across the border in growing numbers as well. They don't seem to be Russian military in plain clothes though, since many of them aren't military age. It isn't clear who is recruiting and organizing them. But whatever the answer is to that, it couldn't happen without the tacit support of the Russian government. There seems to be no effort on the Russian side of the border to stop them crossing.

The rebels seem to have lots of small arms, AKs and RPGs. It isn't clear how much of that is coming across the border from Russia, and how much was obtained by the rebels from local armories that they've seized. The rebels seem to have very little armor (all of it apparently captured from the Ukrainians) and no military aircraft at all. (That's probably why the Ukrainian airforce has stepped up air attacks in the last few days, it's Kiev's best asset and using it is least risky to their side.)

Speculation is that Putin is hoping to build up the insurgency in eastern Ukraine to the point where the Ukrainian military is unable to suppress it, then use it as a bargaining chip for political concessions.

It's less clear what Kiev's gameplan is. Do they hope to destroy the insurgency militarily? They might be able to accomplish that, or maybe not. Or are they maneuvering for position themselves, trying to create facts on the ground, so as to weaken the insurgents' eventual bargaining position?

 

[joepistole]

It appears that Ukrainian paratroopers retook Krasny Limon (a railroad junction town of about 20,000 inhabitants) on Thursday. Reports are that the Ukrainian flag was flying above the city hall on Thursday afternoon and a new pro-Kiev mayor was appointed Friday. Reporters entering the town verify that one of the two hospitals is destroyed, seemingly by air attack. Ukrainian military and armor are digging in all around the town.

Apparently the rebels holding Krasny Limon thought it the better part of valor to pull out rather than try to defend the town against elite Ukrainian paratroopers with armor and air support.

Rebels near nearby Slovyansk are dismissive of the Krasny Limon rebels for withdrawing, but that's actually the thing to do in assymmetrical insurgent warfare where the militarily superior enemy always wants to lure undergunned insurgents into conventional set-piece battle. The insurgent idea is to hit the enemy where they are vulnerable and then melt away when he gathers his forces. (Worked for the Viet Cong then and for the Taliban now.)

The Ukrainians are still moving regular military forces into their tightening ring around the larger town of Slovyansk. It isn't clear if they are planning to assault the town and want to prevent its defenders from escaping, or whether they plan to try to starve them out. Food is already getting harder to find in the city. (Something like 100,000 civilians live there.)

It also isn't clear what Kiev intends to do with Donetsk's airport, which their paratroops seized several days ago. Donetsk is a different kind of animal, a large city of a million people. There's a danger of street fighting with the numerous insurgents there if the city is assaulted.

For their part, the rebels seem to have growing manpower. New insurgent roadblocks and positions seem to be popping up all over, according to reporters on the scene. Many of them are manned by local pro-Russian Ukrainians. But Russians from Russia seem to be coming across the border in growing numbers as well. They don't seem to be Russian military in plain clothes though, since many of them aren't military age. It isn't clear who is recruiting and organizing them. But whatever the answer is to that, it couldn't happen without the tacit support of the Russian government. There seems to be no effort on the Russian side of the border to stop them crossing.

The rebels seem to have lots of small arms, AKs and RPGs. It isn't clear how much of that is coming across the border from Russia, and how much was obtained by the rebels from local armories that they've seized. The rebels seem to have very little armor (all of it apparently captured from the Ukrainians) and no military aircraft at all. (That's probably why the Ukrainian airforce has stepped up air attacks in the last few days, it's Kiev's best asset and using it is least risky to their side.)

Speculation is that Putin is hoping to build up the insurgency in eastern Ukraine to the point where the Ukrainian military is unable to suppress it, then use it as a bargaining chip for political concessions.

It's less clear what Kiev's gameplan is. Do they hope to destroy the insurgency militarily? They might be able to accomplish that, or maybe not. Or are they maneuvering for position themselves, trying to create facts on the ground, so as to weaken the insurgents' eventual bargaining position?

Western powers have threatened Putin with further sanctions if he doesn't stop the border nonsense (i.e. the funding, the supplies, the troops, etc.). So things could get interesting over the course of the next 4 weeks. If Putin fails to yield, more sanctions are headed his way.

 

[joepistole]

Putin is the big looser here. He lost what little trust he had with his neighbors. He as lost the trust of the world’s most powerful economies. He has lost the trust of fellow Russians as they are busily trying to get their wealth out of the country.

Now his neighbors want a US presence in their countries in order to protect them from Comrade Putin. They want US troops; they want US air defenses – all the things Putin says he doesn’t want. The impact on Russia’s economy will be long lasting. Capital is fleeing the country. There is no easy fix here for Russia. Putin has blown this big time. Twenty years of trust has been destroyed in a matter of days. This cannot be fixed in a matter of days, weeks or months, even if Putin magically decides to behave. And what does Putin get out of this, temporary possession of expensive naval bases he already had and some additional acreage.

 

[youreyes]

He has lost the trust of fellow Russians as they are busily trying to get their wealth out of the country.

Now his neighbors want a US presence in their countries in order to protect them from Comrade Putin.

President Putin approval rate higher than 80% (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/03/26/putins-approval-rating-hits-80-percent/) Trust? He has trust of vast majority of every Russian.

And your president's trust? 44% for Obama, less than half of the population of USA.

His neighbors want U.S. presence? The baltic states have never been in good relations with Russia, what's to expect from them. Belarus does not want U.S. presence, neither does Kazakhstan and whole myriad of other countries Russia borders.

Ukraine is a weak country, the US snatched it. But time will pass and all that has been faked and orchestrated by the West and US will come falling down like deck of cards.

 

[joepistole]

President Putin approval rate higher than 80% (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/03/26/putins-approval-rating-hits-80-percent/) Trust? He has trust of vast majority of every Russian.

And your president's trust? 44% for Obama, less than half of the population of USA.

Excuse me, I was referring to the smart people in the country. The ones who have money. They wouldn't be sending their money out of the country as fast as they can move it if they had faith in good old Vlad. Here is something else for you to consider, the poll was not conducted by independent credible sources because none exist in Russia. Putin has cracked down very hard on dissidents. Dissidents in Putin's Russia tend to end up in jail with their wealth confiscated by the Russian state or a dose of radioactive polonium or Dioxin mysteriously finds its way into their food (e.g. Alexander Litvinenko, Viktor Yushchenko, etc.).


Obama doesn't throw people in jail or confiscate their wealth or poison them if they disagree with him.

Well the fact is, if Putin wanted to keep US troops as far away from Russian borders as possible, he has failed. If that was his intention when he invaded the Ukraine, he utterly failed. Because a direct result of that invasion and occupation is the fact that US troops are now in more countries which share a border with Russia. Those countries have invited those US troops in order to stop Russian aggression.

His neighbors want U.S. presence? The baltic states have never been in good relations with Russia, what's to expect from them. Belarus does not want U.S. presence, neither does Kazakhstan and whole myriad of other countries Russia borders.

Ukraine is a weak country, the US snatched it. But time will pass and all that has been faked and orchestrated by the West and US will come falling down like deck of cards.

Yeah the Baltic States have been invaded and occupied by Russia/Soviet Union once before and they didn't like it. It has something to do with this notion of freedom and economic prosperity. And the US has long had a presence in Turkey which once shared a border with the Soviet Union. Turkey is a NATO member. If Russia would stop invading and occupying her neighbors (e.g. Baltic States) and began respecting their sovereignty and dignity, maybe they might have a better relationship with Russia… just maybe.

As for the “myriad” of other countries, I hate to burst your bubble. But they don’t’ exist. The US has good relations with all of Russia’s neighbors. And Kazakhstan has had a US military presence for a number of years. The US has used bases in Kazakhstan to stage and supply military operations in Afghanistan.

Yes the Ukraine is a weak country, weak because Russia has wanted it to be a weak country and it has lived under Russian thralldom for decades. But it doesn’t need to stay that way and the Ukrainians, as evidenced by recent events, don’t want it to stay that way.

And here is one of your many problems, aside for Putin’s fake insurgency; there is nothing fake in the Ukraine. The US has not snatched the Ukraine. The Ukrainian people have snatched their nation from the clutches of Vladimir Putin. Just because the Soviet house of cards collapsed, it doesn’t mean other countries will follow suit.

And for some reason neither you or Putin seem to understand the cold war ended decades ago. You keep wanting to fight a war that ended decades ago. Get a life and move on.

 

[sculptor]

anyone know the 15 points of Petro Poroshenko's peace plan?

 

[Dazz]

Ukraine is a weak country

It has been weakened since long and, guess it, hasn't been given a break ever since.

 

[youreyes]

It has been weakened since long and, guess it, hasn't been given a break ever since.

gas prices way lower than anywhere in Europe, what break? the management of the country is to blame, idiots.

 

[youreyes]

anyone know the 15 points of Petro Poroshenko's peace plan?

are 15 points of a joke. Meanwhile he got helicopters and planes snooping around on rebel positions. Got to keep up an image to the West of peaceful leader. What a joke, he will be sniped out of existence by end of this year. The Nazis in Kiev will get too greedy to follow orders from the US non-stop. He reminds me of Eltsin, a mask of control over him, under full control by the US. Of course before Eltsin left, he made the only and last good thing for the Russians, by appointing Putin to the presidency, without consent from "Western advisors". I really hope this Roshen businessman will realize that the billions of dollars he sold his homeland for to US, will not pay him a price in heart of Ukranians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dawVHXIeK3M

 

[joepistole]

are 15 points of a joke. Meanwhile he got helicopters and planes snooping around on rebel positions. Got to keep up an image to the West of peaceful leader. What a joke, he will be sniped out of existence by end of this year. The Nazis in Kiev will get too greedy to follow orders from the US non-stop. He reminds me of Eltsin, a mask of control over him, under full control by the US. Of course before Eltsin left, he made the only and last good thing for the Russians, by appointing Putin to the presidency, without consent from "Western advisors". I really hope this Roshen businessman will realize that the billions of dollars he sold his homeland for to US, will not pay him a price in heart of Ukranians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dawVHXIeK3M

Either you have a very active imagination with paranoid tendencies or you are a Kool-Aid drinker.

Putin is leaving his "rebels" out on a limb that is about to be cut off by those "weak" Ukranian forces. After initally rejecting the 15 point plan, and after being reminded by Western powers last weekend, Putin now favors the 15 point plan.

Nazis invaded and annexed their neighbors, Ukraine hasn't done that. Putin(Mother Russia) has and like the Nazis, he has done it repeatedly, first with Georgia and then Ukraine. And unlike Mother Russia, the Ukraine has a free press and it has free and transparent elections - unlike Putin and his Nazi predecessors. Incidentially, Russia and Nazi Germany were allies before one betrayed the other. So calling Ukrainians Nazis, is not only counterfactual, it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[CptBork]

I have to say, I don't know much about Poroshenko but this guy's really impressing me so far. The "buddy, let me buy you a beer and we can talk it out" approach is working wonders with his Russian neighbours. Pretty hard for them to justify bombing this guy or calling him a fascist. Russia/Putin made an unbelievably huge mistake in triggering this whole crisis. A Ukraine with European trade partners is a wealthier Ukraine, which would have meant higher demand for Russian products and services.