This is a question of morals. My friend just recently started dating a 15 year old and hes 18. i don't approve of it, but all he ever tells me is, "It's only 3 years when I'm 23 she'll be 20 and thats ok isn't it?" It's just right now it seems wrong. I was looking for soem input. Should I keep on him about it or is it ok?
Morals
- Thread starter Increan
- Start date
well as long he doesn't sleep with her
that's stauatory rape in most states.
It doesn't seem right at this moment but he is right let's say when he was 28 and she was 25...it wouldn't seem bad at all. I say it really depends on the person though many would look down upon it any way.
that's stauatory rape in most states.
It doesn't seem right at this moment but he is right let's say when he was 28 and she was 25...it wouldn't seem bad at all. I say it really depends on the person though many would look down upon it any way.
Like i said it really come down to the maturity of the people involved in the relationship. A 17 year old going out with a 14 year would be scoffed at by society even though they maybe quite mature about it...(which they rarely are) but a 28 and a 25 year old won't get slack because society knows that they are grown up and matured and it expects both of them to act that way....but they might not.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
I don't think there is anything wrong with it...but then again I am not her parent. If there is no sex...maybe there will be, but I think a fifteen year old girl going out with an eighteen year old is not so bad. If she has a semblance of self-awarness and he cares about her then they will both be okay. People scoff at these things because it is so easy for a young girl to get pregnant or hurt in othe ways because she is not emotionally prepared for the relationship. But we don't know what the essence of the union is.
There is nothing wrong with it. They're both kids. If the guy was like 40 or something it would be wrong.
Forget about the law, think about it, is it gross? When you see him with her does it seem like he's a creepy old pervert and she's a naive baby?
If not, then there is nothing wrong with it.
The fact that a 18 year old male can't be with a 15 year old female but a 50 year old male can be with an 18 year old female makes me sick. Thats fucked up right there.
Forget about the law, think about it, is it gross? When you see him with her does it seem like he's a creepy old pervert and she's a naive baby?
If not, then there is nothing wrong with it.
The fact that a 18 year old male can't be with a 15 year old female but a 50 year old male can be with an 18 year old female makes me sick. Thats fucked up right there.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
To Dr. Lou natic
You lunatic! If an eighteen year old girl is with a fifty year old guy it is because she CHOOSES to be and eighteen is a fine age to make such a choice. Maybe he can offer her great sex with his years of experience! Maybe he introduces her to ideas she has never been exposed to. Maybe he indulges her with gifts and nice dinners instead of McDonalds and stupind hallmark cards.
Dearprudence
Why are you concerned?
You lunatic! If an eighteen year old girl is with a fifty year old guy it is because she CHOOSES to be and eighteen is a fine age to make such a choice. Maybe he can offer her great sex with his years of experience! Maybe he introduces her to ideas she has never been exposed to. Maybe he indulges her with gifts and nice dinners instead of McDonalds and stupind hallmark cards.
Dearprudence
Why are you concerned?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
To Dearprudence:
Well I don't know how old you are but I am no longer a teenybopper and I still feel all that crap!
How the hell did you get so healthy anyway? And I am not being sarcastic either I really mean it. I mean if you no longer have those concerns it is because you have mastered them somehow.
Oh god I need a therapist.
Well I don't know how old you are but I am no longer a teenybopper and I still feel all that crap!
How the hell did you get so healthy anyway? And I am not being sarcastic either I really mean it. I mean if you no longer have those concerns it is because you have mastered them somehow.
Oh god I need a therapist.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
To Dearprudence
WOW! Okay your my new guru.
Beyond oneself...it must be nice up there where you are.
I also don't give a hoot about time.
Maturity huh...okay.
WOW! Okay your my new guru.
Beyond oneself...it must be nice up there where you are.
I also don't give a hoot about time.
Maturity huh...okay.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
To Dearprudence:
What have you classified as beyond your self?
Decadence...
I like decadence
What have you classified as beyond your self?
Decadence...
I like decadence
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Yes but the only time I ever feel that is when I am deeply smitten with someone, or in the midst of really really strong fantastic sex, while watching an engrossing film, or being six sheets to the wind. How do you feel that doing everyday mundane things?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Dearprudence said:
"Smitten... I am only smitten by my desires. Who can fulfill my desires? It is him? It is him? It is him? Ah... is it him?? A course of evaluation, really. The fantasy takes form. The fanatsies compete. The attractions intensify. I'm enjoying myself tremendously..."
Smitten by ones desires. I guess after some thought I agree with you. Yes I do, I am a selfish animal and I guess I am more interested in my personal fulfillment. Why is it that the fantasy is at times more interesting the the 'him' one is desires?
"Smitten... I am only smitten by my desires. Who can fulfill my desires? It is him? It is him? It is him? Ah... is it him?? A course of evaluation, really. The fantasy takes form. The fanatsies compete. The attractions intensify. I'm enjoying myself tremendously..."
Smitten by ones desires. I guess after some thought I agree with you. Yes I do, I am a selfish animal and I guess I am more interested in my personal fulfillment. Why is it that the fantasy is at times more interesting the the 'him' one is desires?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
PS: by the way I think you are quite intense or perhaps i should say compelling.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Dearprudence:
There is no union between fantasy and reality, no relation to the concoctions of the mind and what is actually 'real'. I don't think it is possible to know what is the really-real. We impose too much on what is really-real.
You said:
"... there's also reality that enjoys a word or two, and absolutely enjoys inserting her foot in where I don't want it to... "
How does 'reality' insert her foot where 'you' don't want it to?
What relationship does the 'you' have with this said 'reality'?
There is no union between fantasy and reality, no relation to the concoctions of the mind and what is actually 'real'. I don't think it is possible to know what is the really-real. We impose too much on what is really-real.
You said:
"... there's also reality that enjoys a word or two, and absolutely enjoys inserting her foot in where I don't want it to... "
How does 'reality' insert her foot where 'you' don't want it to?
What relationship does the 'you' have with this said 'reality'?
Dearprudence:
An enacted fantasy is real, is this what you are saying?
Lucysnow:
As I said above, acted-out fantasy is reality, but I do agree that we impose too much on what is really-real.
H.P Lovecraft said:
"Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value one over the other"
--Lovecraft, the Silver Key
If I have a lovely fantasy, why should I demolish it to be grounded in the really-real. As you pointed out, how do we know what is really-real anyways? It used to be really-real that the sun orbited the earth.
I think it's because we can make the fantasy into exactly what we want.
Our fantasy does not sulk because we unintentionally hurt his feelings and our fantasy doesn't forget to bring home milk. He's the perfect slave - if he existed, he'd be an echo of ourselves more than anything else.
An enacted fantasy is real, is this what you are saying?
Lucysnow:
As I said above, acted-out fantasy is reality, but I do agree that we impose too much on what is really-real.
H.P Lovecraft said:
"Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value one over the other"
--Lovecraft, the Silver Key
If I have a lovely fantasy, why should I demolish it to be grounded in the really-real. As you pointed out, how do we know what is really-real anyways? It used to be really-real that the sun orbited the earth.
I think it's because we can make the fantasy into exactly what we want.
Our fantasy does not sulk because we unintentionally hurt his feelings and our fantasy doesn't forget to bring home milk. He's the perfect slave - if he existed, he'd be an echo of ourselves more than anything else.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
To Xev:
I love the Lovecraft quote! I agree that acted-out fantasy is real. I was only referring to the inner dream, our internal fabrication and filtering of information. I sometimes find myself in the terrible habit of romanticizing and mythologizing a situation because it is more interesting than the reality'. (see rape, love pain. My response to ThePhinx)
Sometimes it is my failure to relinquish my romanticized version of reality when all rationality points otherwise which gets me into trouble, I don't want to demolish it...perhaps that is why I write. It is a way of firming my version of reality, not as it is but as I think it should be.
I agree it is impossible to know what the really-real is.
I love the Lovecraft quote! I agree that acted-out fantasy is real. I was only referring to the inner dream, our internal fabrication and filtering of information. I sometimes find myself in the terrible habit of romanticizing and mythologizing a situation because it is more interesting than the reality'. (see rape, love pain. My response to ThePhinx)
Sometimes it is my failure to relinquish my romanticized version of reality when all rationality points otherwise which gets me into trouble, I don't want to demolish it...perhaps that is why I write. It is a way of firming my version of reality, not as it is but as I think it should be.
I agree it is impossible to know what the really-real is.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
15 year old girl, 18 year old boy
Immediately after puberty, girls mature faster than boys, at least in some ways. That's why it's so common to see a teenage girl dating a guy just about three years older. The guys her own age seem like geeky cub scouts to her, and the girls his age seem to him like they've lost touch with all the simple, youthful ways to have fun.
It wasn't such a big problem in my day, because kids really didn't start having sex as young as they do today. A teenage girl could spend two years going out with guys three years older and never end up in bed. So the statutory rape issue didn't come up too often. Without that spectre hanging over people's heads, it just seemed normal for girls to hang out with older boys. Of course life was really tough for the 14 year old boys, because they had to wait a couple of years for the girls three years younger to be old enough to date. Perhaps that's not as big a problem today, but I'd just as soon not dwell on the image of a 14-year old boy dating an 11 year old girl.
Anyway, what is right in terms of developing socially doesn't always come out right legally. They might not bust an 18 year old boy for sleeping with a 17 year old girl, because if they did they'd probably completely clog up the legal system and all the murderers would go free. But an 18 year old boy and a 15 year old girl, that doesn't sit right with a lot of people. If they're having sex, he could be asking for really big trouble, and if you're a good friend there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. You don't have be judgmental and tell him what to do (i.e., you might want to drop the references to "morality" regardless of how you feel about it personally), but reminding him of the potential consequences of his actions is just doing what friends are supposed to do.
Other than that there simply is no right answer, it's just one of life's unsolvable problems. Today I see fifteen year old girls who know as much about life as college seniors did back in the 1950s. And I also see 18 year old boys who have their act together about as well as our stud dog when our bitch is in heat. Thinking entirely with the little head.
You're a good friend for wanting to help him. Unfortunately, one of life's most painful lessons is that sometimes we just don't get to help the people we want to. Do your best (and hey, don't leave out the moral lecture just because I said so, you gotta be yourself) and then just be content that you did your best. When it all comes down that's all we can do and it has to be enough.
If you can look into the eyes of that face in the mirror every morning, then you know you're doing OK.
Good luck.
You'll be either relieved or disappointed to know that people have been asking this question for years and there's still no answer.
Immediately after puberty, girls mature faster than boys, at least in some ways. That's why it's so common to see a teenage girl dating a guy just about three years older. The guys her own age seem like geeky cub scouts to her, and the girls his age seem to him like they've lost touch with all the simple, youthful ways to have fun.
It wasn't such a big problem in my day, because kids really didn't start having sex as young as they do today. A teenage girl could spend two years going out with guys three years older and never end up in bed. So the statutory rape issue didn't come up too often. Without that spectre hanging over people's heads, it just seemed normal for girls to hang out with older boys. Of course life was really tough for the 14 year old boys, because they had to wait a couple of years for the girls three years younger to be old enough to date. Perhaps that's not as big a problem today, but I'd just as soon not dwell on the image of a 14-year old boy dating an 11 year old girl.
Anyway, what is right in terms of developing socially doesn't always come out right legally. They might not bust an 18 year old boy for sleeping with a 17 year old girl, because if they did they'd probably completely clog up the legal system and all the murderers would go free. But an 18 year old boy and a 15 year old girl, that doesn't sit right with a lot of people. If they're having sex, he could be asking for really big trouble, and if you're a good friend there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. You don't have be judgmental and tell him what to do (i.e., you might want to drop the references to "morality" regardless of how you feel about it personally), but reminding him of the potential consequences of his actions is just doing what friends are supposed to do.
Other than that there simply is no right answer, it's just one of life's unsolvable problems. Today I see fifteen year old girls who know as much about life as college seniors did back in the 1950s. And I also see 18 year old boys who have their act together about as well as our stud dog when our bitch is in heat. Thinking entirely with the little head.
You're a good friend for wanting to help him. Unfortunately, one of life's most painful lessons is that sometimes we just don't get to help the people we want to. Do your best (and hey, don't leave out the moral lecture just because I said so, you gotta be yourself) and then just be content that you did your best. When it all comes down that's all we can do and it has to be enough.
If you can look into the eyes of that face in the mirror every morning, then you know you're doing OK.
Good luck.