Moralizing about clothes and general self expression

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visceral_instinct

Monkey see, monkey denigrate
Valued Senior Member
Why is it that if you choose to dress in certain ways or generally use certain things as self expression, people get all pissy?

I've been hearing a lot of moralizing about goth clothes and piercings on here. People seem to think that they're only done to piss the rest of society off, or because of psychological inadequacy.

It's really not. Sure, some people do it for stupid reasons. Some of us also just like those clothes, believe it or not. Why do you feel the need to have a go at us? Wearing black all the time or having 3 labret studs does not make you a bad person. Hell, I know metal heads who are very "together" and so called normal people for whom the word inadqeuate is a delicate euphemism.

2 years ago I went to an art course at the community college near where I live. Now, I never brought up the subject of my clothes, music taste, or facial piercings, or in any way acted the victim. Yet most of those people constantly felt the need to take it up with me in a moralistic, even angry tone, saying things like 'You only listen to that music to piss people off'. Very logical. I listen to music with in-ear canal headphones, so no one can hear it, in order to piss others off.

Who, really, was the inadequate one there? A 16 year old who liked to wear dark clothes, or people in their 20s and upwards who felt the need to have a go at said 16 year old?

I think it's essentially arrogance. It's an assumption that 'I don't like X, therefore no one could possibly like X, therefore anyone who seems to like X must just be doing it to piss people off.'

Thoughts?
 
What people wear doesn't bother MOST people it is what they ARE that makes many people upset at them.
 
visceral_instinct said:
Why is it that if you choose to dress in certain ways or generally use certain things as self expression, people get all pissy?

I've been hearing a lot of moralizing about goth clothes and piercings on here....
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I think sometimes you are confusing a personal opinion with moralizing.
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
But people assume what they ARE by what they wear. And its just stereotyping.
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hell yeah! I see someone dressed like a biker, guess what I assume.
Dressed like a hoochey mama, guess what. Clothing is a HUGE part of our personality.
First impressions say a lot. Its why people dress the way they do. If you don't like what peopel think of you, do something about it.
 
Orleander said:
hell yeah! I see someone dressed like a biker, guess what I assume.
Dressed like a hoochey mama, guess what. Clothing is a HUGE part of our personality.
First impressions say a lot. Its why people dress the way they do. If you don't like what peopel think of you, do something about it.
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I can't help what people assume of me. I have a whole lot confidence in the way my body looks and I carry myself accordingly. Since the women who have a lot of confidence in their appearance tend to be sluts people assume the same thing about me. I was the only girl in my class that liked the way I look in our uniform. And people would give me a hard time about it.
 
Orleander said:
I think sometimes you are confusing a personal opinion with moralizing.
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It's not just personal opinions. It's people complaining about how goths/everyone else with piercings only do it to be a rebel and piss society off. DESPITE ME EXPLAINING SEVERAL TIMES THAT IT IS NOT NECESSARILY SO, AND THAT QUITE A FEW PEOPLE JUST DO IT BECAUSE IT'S VISUALLY PLEASING, THEY CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT AND SPEW VENOM.
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
I can't help what people assume of me. I have a whole lot confidence in the way my body looks and I carry myself accordingly. Since the women who have a lot of confidence in their appearance tend to be sluts people assume the same thing about me. I was the only girl in my class that liked the way I look in our uniform. And people would give me a hard time about it.
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Exactly. They choose to make those assumptions. They could choose do be a little less bigoted and judge you by your actions and not your appearance if they wished.

If you don't like what peopel think of you, do something about it.
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See above.

So if people assume I'm attention seeking by having facial piercings, I should take em out?
 
visceral_instinct said:
Why is it that if you choose to dress in certain ways or generally use certain things as self expression, people get all pissy?

I've been hearing a lot of moralizing about goth clothes and piercings on here. People seem to think that they're only done to piss the rest of society off, or because of psychological inadequacy.

It's really not. Sure, some people do it for stupid reasons. Some of us also just like those clothes, believe it or not. Why do you feel the need to have a go at us? Wearing black all the time or having 3 labret studs does not make you a bad person. Hell, I know metal heads who are very "together" and so called normal people for whom the word inadqeuate is a delicate euphemism.

2 years ago I went to an art course at the community college near where I live. Now, I never brought up the subject of my clothes, music taste, or facial piercings, or in any way acted the victim. Yet most of those people constantly felt the need to take it up with me in a moralistic, even angry tone, saying things like 'You only listen to that music to piss people off'. Very logical. I listen to music with in-ear canal headphones, so no one can hear it, in order to piss others off.

Who, really, was the inadequate one there? A 16 year old who liked to wear dark clothes, or people in their 20s and upwards who felt the need to have a go at said 16 year old?

I think it's essentially arrogance. It's an assumption that 'I don't like X, therefore no one could possibly like X, therefore anyone who seems to like X must just be doing it to piss people off.'

Thoughts?
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because they dont see life like we see life, we see it somthing to be explored and try new things wear new things other people (some not all) want us to live life the way they want us to live it, and they want everything they're way, for exaample just check out the "things that make you want to vomit thread"

(interesting)
 
If clothes are an expression, what are they expressing? You are fooling yourself if you think it's all aesthetics. Clothes express all kinds of things.
 
spidergoat said:
If clothes are an expression, what are they expressing? You are fooling yourself if you think it's all aesthetics. Clothes express all kinds of things.
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they express waht we are feeling that day, or the things we like to wear
 
Not just that. We like to wear certain things for a reason, they project ideas about yourself.
 
spidergoat said:
Not just that. We like to wear certain things for a reason, they project ideas about yourself.
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if thats the case i would love to know what my clothes say about me because i have all sorts of clothing in my wardrobe,

example today i wore,

black jeans
white blouse
and my black converse all stars

but i also have very feminine and nice dresses i wear aswel, i also make sure that when i am talking with my sons teachers i dress accordingly
 
I am wearing: a black sleeveless top with a 5 pointed star, some of those immensely flared Bolt jeans, a velvet jumper, and black sneakers.

Psychoanalyse that, go on.
 
So if people assume I'm attention seeking by having facial piercings, I should take em out?
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You shouldn't care what others think about what you look like but what you do with your life.
 
visceral_instinct said:
It's not just personal opinions. It's people complaining about how goths/everyone else with piercings only do it to be a rebel and piss society off. DESPITE ME EXPLAINING SEVERAL TIMES THAT IT IS NOT NECESSARILY SO, AND THAT QUITE A FEW PEOPLE JUST DO IT BECAUSE IT'S VISUALLY PLEASING, THEY CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT AND SPEW VENOM.
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It's naive to think that the way we present ourselves to others is not communication. The first information anyone receives about you is not your stunning intellect, your sensitive graciousness, your impressive knowledge of sociology, or the year you spent working for the food bank. They see your clothes, your jewelry, your hairstyle and your makeup.

And you know what? Everybody knows that you know this too. Therefore, the first impression you make on all of us must be something you deliberately chose, in order to tell us something about yourself that you believe is really important for us to know.

So cut the crap. Nobody's buying it!

The only people who get dressed in a social vacuum, with no awareness that their appearance makes an impression on other people, are the ones we call "geeks." The ones who have two matching socks--on a good day.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
It's naive to think that the way we present ourselves to others is not communication. The first information anyone receives about you is not your stunning intellect, your sensitive graciousness, your impressive knowledge of sociology, or the year you spent working for the food bank. They see your clothes, your jewelry, your hairstyle and your makeup.

And you know what? Everybody knows that you know this too. Therefore, the first impression you make on all of us must be something you deliberately chose, in order to tell us something about yourself that you believe is really important for us to know.

So cut the crap. Nobody's buying it!

The only people who get dressed in a social vacuum, with no awareness that their appearance makes an impression on other people, are the ones we call "geeks." The ones who have two matching socks--on a good day.
Click to expand...

The first information anyone receives about you is not your stunning intellect, your sensitive graciousness, your impressive knowledge of sociology, or the year you spent working for the food bank. They see your clothes, your jewelry, your hairstyle and your makeup.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself. I don't judge people on how they look, even if I think they look like shit. I know better than that.

They see your clothes, your jewelry, your hairstyle and your makeup.
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Well, that cuts both ways. If people can judge me as a disturbed for wearing a Vader T-shirt, I can judge them as dull, boring, and anaesthetised for wearing so-called normal clothes.

And you know what? Everybody knows that you know this too. Therefore, the first impression you make on all of us must be something you deliberately chose, in order to tell us something about yourself that you believe is really important for us to know.
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Don't tell me what urges are at work inside my own head. You don't live in my brain. I don't dress to tell people something. I don't feel a need to tell the rest of society something. I dress to express myself and I think everyone should.

So according to you, I should quit wearing black leather and camo pants and start wearing dull clothes like the normal people? Sorry, that's not going to happen. It's extremely unhealthy to base your life on what others think. Also:

They see your clothes, your jewelry, your hairstyle and your makeup.
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What they make of that is their problem, not mine. For example, others might see me in a pair of jeans that has a huge hole and think 'what a slob'. In fact I make a point of wearing things until they can't be used any more, because I hate wasting anything. (Well, that and the fact that safety pins look pretty cool. :D)
 
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