Morality poll

Was the order to have the two singing girls killed moral or immoral?


  • Total voters
    6

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
This is a poll about morality.

I am specifically interested in the morality on display in a popular folk-tale. I first read the story on an Islamic Arabic News website. It was considered by the presenters a virtuous tale and morally apt. It's not uncommon for people to use tales to teach morality. Take Aesop's Fables for instance. We've all heard the phrase ".. and the moral of the story is..."

Therefor the folk-lore or tale or fable needn't be true itself to answer this poll. The poll has nothing at all to do with historic accuracy or even reality but only to do with morality.

Here is the tale as I originally heard it:
Arab News
"Abdullah ibn Khatal used to be a Muslim. The Prophet once sent him to collect zakah from people who lived far away. He traveled with another man and a servant of his who was a Muslim. At one stage on the way they stopped. He gave the servant orders to slaughter a big goat and prepare food for him while he himself went to sleep. When he woke up, he discovered that the servant had not done anything. He killed his servant and, fearing the Prophet’s punishment, reverted to idolatry. He also had two slave girls who used to sing for him and for his companions songs full of abuse of the Prophet. The Prophet’s instructions specified that the two slave girls should also be killed. The man was killed as he was actually holding on to the coverings of the Kaaba. Abu Barzah Al-Aslami and Saeed ibn Hurayth Al-Makhzumi killed him along with one of his slave girls. The other managed to flee until someone sought a special pardon for her from the Prophet, which he granted."

Here is an English Translation by
Alfred Guillaume
of the original Historical work of Muhammad ibn Ishaq ibn Yasar who himself was (and is) considered a scholar and historian and whom many credit with witting the oldest Biograph of Mohammad.

Another was Abdullah Khatal of B. Taym b. Ghalib. He had become a Muslim and the apostle sent him to collect the poor tax in company with one of the Ansar. He had with him a freed slave who served him. (He was a Muslim.) When they halted he ordered the latter to kill a goat for him and prepare some food, and went to sleep. When he woke up the man had done nothing, so he attacked and killed him and apostatized. He had two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed with him.


The Poll Question:

Was the order to have the two singing-girls killed (Fartana and her friend) moral or immoral?

Why or why not?

Thanks,
Michael

Michael
 
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How could it be moral? The moral of the story is: Do exactly as you are told or I will have a tantrum and go on a killing rampage? Fuck.
 
Guillame translated the work of Hisham, a student of Ishaq, and only selected parts of Ishaqs work to comment on. Neither Ishaq nor Hisham's works survive.
 
Guillame translated the work of Hisham, a student of Ishaq, and only selected parts of Ishaqs work to comment on. Neither Ishaq nor Hisham's works survive.
Again, Sam, please, the point is about the moral of the story.

So - what say you?

Michael
 
It sounds like a misunderstanding. He let the other girl go, right?
 
The two girls being ordered to death.
In real life that may have been true, or it could be that the events never happened. But in the recorded story "The Prophet’s instructions specified that the two slave girls should also be killed."


So I am assuming you feel that the order was immoral - then you are going to vote "immoral"?
 
In real life that may have been true, or it could be that the events never happened. But in the recorded story "The Prophet’s instructions specified that the two slave girls should also be killed."
Neither of the stories you gave specified why the two girls were ordered to be put to death. I assumed that it was because the prophet suspected they had a part in killing the man, thus a misunderstanding. Other than that, yes I would say it was an immoral order to give.
 
Neither of the stories you gave specified why the two girls were ordered to be put to death. I assumed that it was because the prophet suspected they had a part in killing the man, thus a misunderstanding. Other than that, yes I would say it was an immoral order to give.
I thought the man was sentenced to death for converting to idolatry and was under the impression that the order to kill the girls was in relation to the satirical songs they sung? Surely those songs were considered a kind of idolatry - making fun of Mohammad and saying he was not a "real" prophet.

I can not imagine they had a hand in murdering the slave? If so why let one off the hook later?
 
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Neither of the stories you gave specified why the two girls were ordered to be put to death. I assumed that it was because ...
Actually this is part of the power of myths I think. It keeps them relevant as the ages pass and new begin.
 
Well that's interesting, no one on the board thought that the order regarding the killing of the slave girls was moral. Yet, this story has been passed on for over 1400 years and was cited in the online News Arab.com as a part of the moral foundation of Islam.

Odd that,

Michael
 
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