davewhite04:
And every example you gave was ancient history, which is all I said/pointed out. End of story.
It's not the end of the story, though. Many of your fellow Christians are intent on getting their interpretations of biblical morality enacted into enforceable laws of the land, for example. In some cases, they have succeeded, to the general detriment of human wellbeing.
What "morality" are you referring to? The James R atheist type?
Atheism does not come with any morality attached. Atheism is only about not being convinced that any God exists; that's all.
My personal morality is most closely aligned with secular humanist values which are demonstrably more moral than most of biblical morality, in that they value human wellbeing above devotion to an arbitrary set of supposed commands from an invisible man in the sky.
Or are you trying to speak about your creator who can do what the hell He wants without you understanding why, because He is way above you, and His morality is his.
Let's assume that your God is real. Your argument is that God's morality is good because God can do whatever the hell he wants? Might makes right? That's a lousy basis for morality, if you ask me.
If you believe a 2000 year old book written for the Jews is applicable today, even though the Jews have been cut off from sacrificial worship, i.e. they have no Levite priests to enforce any instructions from God, is relevant today, then you are deluded.
Isn't it
you who is arguing for the applicability of the 2000 year old book, not me?
Sure, you think you can pick and choose the parts you like from that book, but you still want to claim moral authority based on what the book says. You just want to ignore all the bad bits.
Jesus fulfilled the law, His commandment was Mark 12:30-31. Are Christians behaving okay for you James R?
I appreciate that there is a huge variety of different Christians. Christians differ wildly in their morality, across different denominations and across individual members of those denominations.
I can tell you for sure that there are large groups of Christians whose behaviour is
not okay by me, davewhite. If you read the news, you'll see a lot of appalling behaviour from self-proclaimed Christians and the organisations they run. Of course, there are also examples of praiseworthy moral behaviour on the part of many Christians.
Am I okay with child abuse in the Catholic Church - carried out exclusively by self-declared Christians? No, I'm not okay with that. How about you, davewhite? Am I okay with Christian sects that oppress and control their members in harmful ways? No, I'm not okay with that. How about you, davewhite? Am I okay with Christians making laws to ban access to abortion, even in cases of rape or incest? No, I'm not okay with that. How about you, davewhite?
Pull the plank out of your eye before judging others.
What are you talking about? Be specific if you're going to accuse me of something.
Here you go with morals again, you have got no idea what you are talking about.
You don't know me very well, do you?
Where do you get you morals from?
That would require a very lengthy explanation, because as far as I can tell you haven't really given much consideration to the question of where people, in general, get their morals from. It seems like you believe - wrongly - that you get yours from a book.
I'll give you a very brief overview of where my morals come from. I value human wellbeing and human flourishing - not exclusively, mind you. Because I value those things, I feel like I have a duty, first and foremost, not to
impede or
hinder or
harm human wellbeing or flourishing through my own actions. I agree with the maxim "Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you."
I also recognise that I live in an interconnected society that I share with 8 billion other human beings. In a general sense, I support the idea of the "greatest good for the greatest number", but the moral calculus that I apply in practice is not
just a matter of counting heads.
I am partial to certain ideas about virtues and living a good life. Those incorporate a lot of ideas about how one should act with respect to other people, as well. One should be honest. One should not set out to gain personally from another's misery. One should lend a hand to others who are in need. And so on.
My morals do
not come out of a fear that I will be punished if I'm not a good boy. I don't have the threat of a Hell hanging over my head.
I hope that helps you to some extent to begin to understand.
