Miracle.. or Metaphor..Was Jesus a Hacker.

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Emotional Hooligan

Registered Senior Member
In response to.. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
((Why did you inject the ".. contrary to nature." in your question?
God does Act according to His will. But i am just wondering where you are coming from with this "contrary to nature"?))

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Could be that old habits die hard..

As to where I am coming from..

I’m a reformed atheist..:)


Seriously though.. let me give you an example..


Jesus Calms the Storm

“Then, getting up, He rebuked the winds and the sea.. and a calm set in. So the men became amazed and said: "What sort of person is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?" Matthew 8:23


If the winds and the sea.. literally obeyed Jesus.. then that would be contrary to nature.. and this would imply that God was be a supernatural being.

However.. if this story is encrypted in metaphor.. and symbolism.. which it is..

Then it isn’t contrary to (human) nature at all..

There is nothing supernatural about it. Even today we use the same metaphorical language towards those whose words have no staying power.. or substance.


“How long will you keep uttering these things, When the sayings of your mouth are but a powerful wind?”
Job 8:2


For example.. the words of those in power.. are for most part.. wind.

And according to the mythology..

Jesus rebuked the wind.. and the sea became calm.


This verse from the Psalms.. clearly explains what the miracle story really means..


“He is stilling the noise of the seas, The noise of their waves and the turmoil of the national groups. He causes the windstorm to stand at a calm, So that the waves of the sea keep quiet.”
Psalms 65:7


Consider the wording. "He will certainly rebuke it".. rebuke is the exact same word that is used in the miracle story.. and the precision of these words are the clues., that take us beneath the symbolism.

This is no coincidence..

Then we see the real meaning.. of the sea and wind.. that Jesus rebuked..


“The national groups themselves will make a din just like the noise of many waters. And He will certainly rebuke it, and it must flee far away and be chased like the chaff of the mountains before a wind and like a thistle whirl before a storm wind.

But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire. There is no peace," my God has said, "for the wicked ones.”
Isaiah 17:12

Symbolism.. metaphor.. riddles.. poetry.. yes.


However.. there is nothing in the Bible concerning the supernatural at all..

It is an occult book.. that’s all.

It was sealed up by means of encryption..

Basically.. the Bible is a trojan..

Created to hack into our system..


And.. as they say in the Matrix..

“We’re in!!!” …. :)


“And for you men the vision of everything becomes like the words of the book that has been sealed up, which they give to someone knowing the writing, saying: "Read this out loud, please," and he has to say: "I am unable for it is sealed up."
Isaiah 29:9

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Foot note


It is a miracle how these verses can flow together though..

Speaking in the high language of symbolism..


"And when he opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in heaven
for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels that stand before God,
and the seven trumpets were given them. And the thunders occurred and voices and lightnings and an earthquake. And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them."
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Emotional Hooligan said:
I’m a reformed atheist..:)
Click to expand...
reformed:removed faults, improved conduct, morals, etc.

so I believe, you mean you are a much much better atheist than before.
this is new to me, never heard the like, how bad an atheist were you, before.
 
There is a Problem with dismissing Miracles only because one can be skeptical of the Miracles of Jesus. there have been so many more recent Miracles. The Marian Branch of the Catholic Church (not the Paulist baby raping Priests and Corrupt Secular Bishops) has had a great many Saints -- saints known for their copious Miracles. Indeed, in quantity and quality they can almost be said to eclipse those of Christ Himself. Afterall, Christ never levitated, but Joseph of Copertino was reputed to be able to fly 'swift as an arrow' and to spin in the sky 'like a top'. Vincent Ferrer was probably the Greatest Saint in all of History. It was said of him that any day without 10,000 miracles would have been a 'miracle'. He toured Europe with upwards of 10,000 Flegellents -- people who beat themselves constantly with barbed whips -- and his boost was that they could hike 30 miles a day, beating themselves bloody, and NONE of them would weaken or get sick. He would clear out complete hospitals. He would be so overworked, he would 'delegate' local priests to go to surrounding villages and 'for the day' would have the power to heal, and nobody would be amazed more than they. This was the 14th Century. Complete Cities would gather in the Town Square and he would give a speech. Nobody would expect to hear, there were no audio systems, but they all would hear. And although he only spoke Castilean Spanish, everybody would hear his Address in their own Mother's Tongue. Jesus was NEVER that good. Then there was Francis of Paola, down in Southern Itally. He could play tricks with gravity and was always raising people and animals from the dead. Sometimes trivially. His Bishops told him he should not perform trivial Miracles and so when a laborer fell off a Bell Tower, Francis suspended the man in mid-air and asked him to wait while he went to the Bishop to ask whether saving a falling man from a Bell Tower was trivial or not.

I could go on, but my point is that discrediting the miracles of Jesus hardly matters since we have so many Miracles well into Historical Times of our own Civilization.
 
Bla,bla,bla,bla, yea!! Leo your biggest miracle would be showing any substantial evidence of these claims of yours! :rolleyes:
 
Hello Hooligan.

Thanks for answering my question. You did not need to start a new thread on it, but no big deal, its cool.


From reading your answer i come to the conclusion as to your interpretation of the term "country to nature” and using what i believe in your understanding of the term i will say that yes God can cause things to happen that are contrary to nature.


So that should let you know how i will be responding to your view that all the bible is total symbolism.


The bible is a blend of symbolic and literal or plain facts and parables, the blend is there for a purpose. That purpose is to block the message from the person who is not looking into the knowledge of the Bible with the right intentions, (with the right spirit if you like) many people go to the extremes in either seeking to interpret the bible with extreme literalism or in your case extreme symbolism, both extremes lead the proponents nowhere.


So in the Bible the word Water can mean literal Water. Or it could mean peoples. Or it could mean Knowledge. Or it could mean sustaining spiritual power depending on where it is used, sometimes it can mean two of the above at the same time.


It is a miracle how these verses can flow together though..

Speaking in the high language of symbolism..

"And when he opened the seventh seal, a silence occurred in heaven
for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels that stand before God,
and the seven trumpets were given them. And the thunders occurred and voices and lightnings and an earthquake. And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them."
Click to expand...

You see this as all symbolic? The seven trumpets lead to real world disasters beyond the scale ever seen before by man. What the trumpets herald is not symbolic its very real and globally destructive.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
It's symbollic because it never says that they blow them. Here the Bible shows that there is no end of the world. There is no eternal Damnation or eternal life. Those concepts were used to convey a lesson, like philosophical poetry. Those are some of the most signifigant lines, that's where you identify that everything is for learning purposes, and shouldn't be taken literally.
 
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