Migraines & Cluster Headaches/Migraines

[ripleofdeath]

I have recently been the unlucky recipient of what seems to be cluster headches, which is basicly migraines lasting around 20 to 30 minutes in duration at a frquency of around 5 or soo per day.
Had a CT scan and blood test everything is well within normal range with blood presure being slightly better than average.

clasic indicators of flashing lights and basic visual disturbance leading up to them.

The Pain was the most intense pain i have ever had before.
and
Neurophen plus ( ibuprophen 200mg and codine 12.5mg)
would do nothing for them taking up to 4 tablets at a time.
and then on to Tramal (Tramadol 50mg) which also seemed to do nothing.
now on amiltriptaline 25mg and tramadol 50mg and today brufen 400mg.
finaly they are subsiding.

in my crash coarse in migraine medication it seems there is a new player on the market MAXALT which retails here for $100.00 for 6 tablets.
it is said to be fantastic by those who have switched to it.
also there is some solid evidence suggesting marijuana is also very good.

Do you suffer from these ?
Do you know anything about the medication variaties ?
Do you use marijuana to control headaches ?

i use to smoke marijuana nearly every day for 10 plus years, so it is highly likely this masked the actual migraines assuming what ever it is that causes them was there all along.

This MAXALT stuff suggests it is dangerous to people with heart medications...
THus being new has no long term data.

 

[John99]

I have recently been the unlucky recipient of what seems to be cluster headches, which is basicly migraines lasting around 20 to 30 minutes in duration at a frquency of around 5 or soo per day.
Had a CT scan and blood test everything is well within normal range with blood presure being slightly better than average.

clasic indicators of flashing lights and basic visual disturbance leading up to them.

The Pain was the most intense pain i have ever had before.
and
Neurophen plus ( ibuprophen 200mg and codine 12.5mg)
would do nothing for them taking up to 4 tablets at a time.
and then on to Tramal (Tramadol 50mg) which also seemed to do nothing.
now on amiltriptaline 25mg and tramadol 50mg and today brufen 400mg.
finaly they are subsiding.

in my crash coarse in migraine medication it seems there is a new player on the market MAXALT which retails here for $100.00 for 6 tablets.
it is said to be fantastic by those who have switched to it.
also there is some solid evidence suggesting marijuana is also very good.

Do you suffer from these ?
Do you know anything about the medication variaties ?
Do you use marijuana to control headaches ?

i use to smoke marijuana nearly every day for 10 plus years, so it is highly likely this masked the actual migraines assuming what ever it is that causes them was there all along.

This MAXALT stuff suggests it is dangerous to people with heart medications...
THus being new has no long term data.

My father had them years ago, the pain IS intense no doubt at it. I doubt weed will help much but i would give it a shot, if you go that route be sure it is good hydroponic. Cluster headaches are very strange and there could be a magic bullet with the THC.

The thing is they will disappear as fast as they started and most likely you will never get another one again.

Do you want to be a guniea pig for new med's? There not gonna last much longer, at least the bad cluster headaches wont.

 

[ripleofdeath]

My father had them years ago, the pain IS intense no doubt at it. I doubt weed will help much but i would give it a shot, if you go that route be sure it is good hydroponic. Cluster headaches are very strange and there could be a magic bullet with the THC.

The thing is they will disappear as fast as they started and most likely you will never get another one again.

Do you want to be a guniea pig for new med's? There not gonna last much longer, at least the bad cluster headaches wont.

Thanks for your thoughts John, i agree with you that it would indeed be a bit of russian roulette with marijuana.
i am allergic to diclofinac which surprised many medical people, and also paracetamol.
hypersensative.
When the pain is bad it is almost cripling pain where my body shuts down.
i use breathing and mental techniques i have studyed from old martial arts books and after having soo man broken bones over the years can put myself into a semi state of unconsciusnes.
But because of the intense pain in my head it makes it near impossible to do that.
i have lost maybe a stone in the last 3 weeks from feeling too sick to eat and have stopped smoking also, soo there is a minor upside i gues

i have not been able to sleep lying down either so have been sleeping on the couch for the last 3 or 4 weeks, my body is feeling a little scrunched

i was told that pure oxygen can help allot they do not exactly know why but in cluster headaches it is supposed to help.
only technical hitch with that is it is near iumpossible to get the stuff.
Waiting several hours at a hospital before being seen is not uncommon (it was not uncommon for me to go into the hospital in the morning and leave in the late afternoon with a broken arm Xrayed and placed in a cast[mid 80s when i was a school student]), i was lucky when i was refered by my doctor for the ct scan, they did not muck around, i was quite impressed.

i would like to try and buy an oxygen bottle to have at home but suspect that may be an uphill strugle.

 

[Billy T]

I have recently been the unlucky recipient of what seems to be cluster headches, which is basicly migraines lasting around 20 to 30 minutes in duration

I doubt it will help, but it might: Increase the CO2 you breath. For example, breath inside a paper bag. - I am not joking. Here is why it may help:

There is never any pain associated with assaults to the brain itself. (Normally brain surgery is with local anesthesia on an alert patent, whose functional skills, specially speaking can be constantly tested, to avoid damage, which might get the doctor sued later.) Some think therefore that the blood vessels in the brain being stretched etc are the cause of Headaches.

The blood vessels in the brain differ from those in rest of body. They expand when CO2 concentration of the blood is increased. This is why some measurements of where in the brain your thoughts are located is possible (assuming that thoughts require more neural activity, which requires more O2 and produces more CO2 locally and the brain blood vessels expand to get rid of the CO2 building up and more O2 delivered as the resistance to blood flow goes down with larger vessels.)

If you increase the CO2 by rebreathing some you have exhaled, you may:
(1) Make it hurt worse,
(2) Make it hurt less, or
(3) Make no change in the pain.

My money is on (3), but it cost nothing to try will not hurt to try unless (1) is true.

 

[ripleofdeath]

I doubt it will help, but it might: Increase the CO2 you breath. For example, breath inside a paper bag. - I am not joking. Here is why it may help:

There is never any pain associated with assaults to the brain itself. (Normally brain surgery is with local anesthesia on an alert patent, whose functional skills, specially speaking can be constantly tested, to avoid damage, which might get the doctor sued later.) Some think therefore that the blood vessels in the brain being stretched etc are the cause of Headaches.

The blood vessels in the brain differ from those in rest of body. They expand when CO2 concentration of the blood is increased. This is why some measurements of where in the brain your thoughts are located is possible (assuming that thoughts require more neural activity, which requires more O2 and produces more CO2 locally and the brain blood vessels expand to get rid of the CO2 building up and more O2 delivered as the resistance to blood flow goes down with larger vessels.)

If you increase the CO2 by rebreathing some you have exhaled, you may:
(1) Make it hurt worse,
(2) Make it hurt less, or
(3) Make no change in the pain.

My money is on (3), but it cost nothing to try will not hurt to try unless (1) is true.

Thanks for your thoughts Billy.
I understand what you are getting at.
Chlorine and Potassium both are used in the firing sequence of brain cells so also maybe increasing one of those may create worse pain or less pain in a similar line of theory to what you are talking about.

What also complicates the issue is i have 2 possible root canal that need doing on that side.
and initialy was the gues of infection in sinuses or teeth, so i went on anti biotics for 5 days.
near the end of the antibiotics the pain was slightly less, however a day or soo after it was back even worse than before.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

How old are you Ripple?

As a kid, we're laking early teens upwards, I "used to" get appalling Migraines of the sort you describe, religiously. I say "used to", I supposed practically speaking I still do - but the thing with them is, as you get older, though you may get the visuals the actual headaches themselves don't materialise as a consequence.

I found throughout my twenties I honestly don't recall having them at all - mind, I wasn't aversed to the odd spliff 24/7, so perhaps that may have had some bearing on the matter - I never noticed a subsequent recurrence of any migraine activity at all until I hit my 30's, by which time I'd knocked all that sort of business firmly on the head.

Besides, I'm not entirely convinced of the argument that cannabis or cannabis resin actually helps in migraine treatment. As I mentioned, I first developed the things in my early teens and there's a fair bit of neurological rewiring going on in the brain throughout that period leading into you're early twenties - If I hadn't been chuffing away for England I suspect I'd probably have found the frequency of migraine attacks would have decreased anyway.

However, from my 30's on, all I ever get is the visuals and it's very infrequent that happens at all. Surprised the hell out of me actually getting my first attack after so many years of not having them. I've heard similar reports from other people, I suppose it all comes down to how old you are when you first get the things.

As for treatment. I never found anything which would even begin to touch a migraine headache. The only thing which ever worked for me was sleep. Frankly, never was actually capable of doing anything else during one.

 

[ripleofdeath]

How old are you Ripple?

As a kid, we're laking early teens upwards, I "used to" get appalling Migraines of the sort you describe, religiously. I say "used to", I supposed practically speaking I still do - but the thing with them is, as you get older, though you may get the visuals the actual headaches themselves don't materialise as a consequence.

I found throughout my twenties I honestly don't recall having them at all - mind, I wasn't aversed to the odd spliff 24/7, so perhaps that may have had some bearing on the matter - I never noticed a subsequent recurrence of any migraine activity at all until I hit my 30's, by which time I'd knocked all that sort of business firmly on the head.

Besides, I'm not entirely convinced of the argument that cannabis or cannabis resin actually helps in migraine treatment. As I mentioned, I first developed the things in my early teens and there's a fair bit of neurological rewiring going on in the brain throughout that period leading into you're early twenties - If I hadn't been chuffing away for England I suspect I'd probably have found the frequency of migraine attacks would have decreased anyway.

However, from my 30's on, all I ever get is the visuals and it's very infrequent that happens at all. Surprised the hell out of me actually getting my first attack after so many years of not having them. I've heard similar reports from other people, I suppose it all comes down to how old you are when you first get the things.

As for treatment. I never found anything which would even begin to touch a migraine headache. The only thing which ever worked for me was sleep. Frankly, never was actually capable of doing anything else during one.

i am 36 in febuary
first and only recolection of a migraine was when i was 6 years old, very clear memmory.
i started smoking marijuana when i was 17 had maybe a total of a pack of ciggarettes worth of pot over the next year or 2.
then from about 19 onwards smoked everyday for a fair few years, backed off around late 20s, never realy suffered from headaches though, had the odd one now and then which i would try and tough it out for a few hours and sometimes maybe a mild one for a couple of days, but would rarely take any pain killers for them.
have been off marijuana now for well apart from an odd wee puff 6 months or soo back basicly nothing for the last 5 or 6 years.

what i term "visuals" are only what i assume to be the same type of thing, as i do not know what migraine sufferers have.
What i have had for a few years is spots of light in my vision, like a tiny dot of light changing in number and frequency from time to time, but never any head ache with it or associated in any way that i can recal.

- Todays update, woke up to find my jaw had swolen up and the pain killers which had only just started to kick in yesterday started to stop working in the early hours of the morning, waking every 2 hours or soo.
Soo being sunday i went to the hospital emergency entrance (our version of the front door for medical treatment in a hospital)
A & E accident and emergency.
turns out i have an infection in a gland.

so now, on different pain killers another double dose of anti-biotics
and then 2 weeks later off for another 5K worth of dentistry

 

[Mr Anonymous]

started smoking marijuana when i was 17 had maybe a total of a pack of ciggarettes worth of pot over the next year or 2.

... Mmmm. I think that may have lasted me a whole week back in the day.

You say in opening "I have recently been the unlucky recipient of what seems to be cluster headches" - and you're teeth have been kicking up over a similar period?

You also mention something about taking antibiotics, the pain lessing over a period of five days, and then coming back worse than before.

As a wild stabbing guess I'd venture possibly the antibiotics you took simply weren't strong enough - were they prescribed or were you self medicating?

Personally, I'd mention these symptoms you've been having next time you see someone. And if it gets any worse, make it soon. Hopefully, whatever you've been prescribed for the swelling will help relieve the symptoms - I've got the distinct feeling you're migraines and you're problems with your teeth aren't unrelated. One way or another, stress, lack of sleep - these can induce the things.

As I mentioned, at you're age you should really be past the actual head ache part of the migraine, but neurologically speaking if you're getting the visuals (and, yes, pretty much as you describe, what you get is an inability to focus directly on anything, you're vision tends to swirl around and there's a fair display of stuff going on in the periphery) technically you are having one - but if you're needing root canal work - I'm frankly not surprised you're getting killer headaches with it.

You do just want to check nothing swelling is pressing against anything near the optic nerve. If things get any worse, get back to you're local ER try seeing about getting some emergency dental treatment. Loosing three stone in weight rapidly, not healthy. That coupled with the lack of sleep, certainly isn't going to do the head any favours.

I wish you well with it.

A

 

[ripleofdeath]

... Mmmm. I think that may have lasted me a whole week back in the day.

You say in opening "I have recently been the unlucky recipient of what seems to be cluster headches" - and you're teeth have been kicking up over a similar period?

You also mention something about taking antibiotics, the pain lessing over a period of five days, and then coming back worse than before.

As a wild stabbing guess I'd venture possibly the antibiotics you took simply weren't strong enough - were they prescribed or were you self medicating?

Personally, I'd mention these symptoms you've been having next time you see someone. And if it gets any worse, make it soon. Hopefully, whatever you've been prescribed for the swelling will help relieve the symptoms - I've got the distinct feeling you're migraines and you're problems with your teeth aren't unrelated. One way or another, stress, lack of sleep - these can induce the things.

As I mentioned, at you're age you should really be past the actual head ache part of the migraine, but neurologically speaking if you're getting the visuals (and, yes, pretty much as you describe, what you get is an inability to focus directly on anything, you're vision tends to swirl around and there's a fair display of stuff going on in the periphery) technically you are having one - but if you're needing root canal work - I'm frankly not surprised you're getting killer headaches with it.

You do just want to check nothing swelling is pressing against anything near the optic nerve. If things get any worse, get back to you're local ER try seeing about getting some emergency dental treatment. Loosing three stone in weight rapidly, not healthy. That coupled with the lack of sleep, certainly isn't going to do the head any favours.

I wish you well with it.

A

Cheers
This time last year my father was being diagnosed with terminal secondary cancer, myloid lukemia, heart valve fault and fluid on the lung, consequently a couple of months later blew his head off all over the lounge, which yours truely had to clean up after the police had removed his body.
since then i have been periodicaly cleaning bits of brain matter off items around the lounge and dining room (wealls furniture and appliances).
plus i have moved twice since then.
soo, stress could be a contributing factor as one could imagine.

Visuals- i do not get the swirling room spinning type of thing, never have done apart from the very odd occasion drinking to excess.

i was actualy put on anti biotics for a earlyer, after about 1 to 2 weeks of the headaches starting.
i wonder if i might have had an infection then, and the anti biotiocs knocked it back but then i got another one.
i was worried it might have been septacimia because of the migrating pain down my neck into my chest and around my head, after the main realy harsh headaches had stopped.
- i do get allot of perripheral vision disturbance shadows and the eye trying to change focus to establish light and dark areas (forgotten what the technical term is).

RE: root canal stuff i have had 2 root canal issues going on at once(a few years ago), and the pain was able to be nearly completely eliminated by pain meds (some synthetic morphiate and something else in combination, although i cant recal what they were called.

i have been back to my doctor about 5 times in the total episode and try to tell him as much as i can.
weight loss i suspect around a stone maybe 5 kilos, although i have not weighed myself yet.
I may go to my doctor tomorrow to update him on what has been going on.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Billy T]

Thanks for your thoughts Billy. I understand what you are getting at.
Chlorine and Potassium both are used in the firing sequence of brain cells so also maybe increasing one of those may create worse pain or less pain in a similar line of theory to what you are talking about....

I doubt these ions play much of a role compared to Na+ The normal resting potential of the interior of nerves is approximately -70mV because nerve cell uses energy to "pump" Na+ from interior to outside (So call "sodium pump") When your nerve "fires" a progressive wave of Na+ ions streams back in along the nerve's axon bringing the interior voltage at least to 0, and often with a few mV positive "overshoot."

If you want to play around with ingestion of things that definitely control nerve actions, Salt (NaCl) the thing most likely to do something. Most people are not "salt sensitive" (years ago when I tested my self, I was not). People are told not to eat too much salt as that is good public health policy - protects those few (~5% -I do not recall for sure) who are "salt sensitive." To test your self, you can as I did long ago, get access to blood pressure measurement equipment and eat a spoon of salt, wait a while, and see if your blood pressure goes up. How long you should wait before taking next spoon of salt, I do not know but seem to recall I waited about 15 minutes.

If you, as most, are not salt sensitive, then you could try eating a spoon or two of salt when you begin to have pain. Again, my money is on the "no effect" horse. I am not a doctor. You may want to talk to one about this. (Many do not know that only a few are "salt sensitive" as public heath services tend not to include this counter productive fact in their anti-salt campaigns.)

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

I presently have a permanent headache, there when I wake up, there when I go to sleep, one full week now. At its worst it makes me feel sick and I can't concentrate. A slight feeling of being 'drunk'. Oh and very painful at its worst obviously.

I suspect sinusitis.

Many things can cause headaches, yours being short may be due to caffeine/other diet related or blood pressure. Did you have Bp checked (sorry did not read all thread)?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I may go to my doctor tomorrow to update him on what has been going on.

Thanks for your thoughts.

My pleasure old chap, just yes. Do make sure you do the doctor thing. The stuff concerning the infection with your teeth sounds about right - tooth infections are extremely tenacious, hard to clear up entirely and if they don't... well, you know the answer to that yourself.

From the sound you've got a cluster of things all going on at the same time, from what you relay I'd say you've likely been run down for some time. Considering what you've been through with you're family life, I's be massively surprised if stress wasn't playing a large part in your health and well being in general.

Don't let the term put you off - it's not all stuff just to do with what's going on in your head, it has profound, detrimental effects on health most especially ones immune system. As I say, off hand the problem with your teeth seems the most immediate and readily fixable.

As I say do make sure you go through all of your problems thoroughly with your doctor. With migraines you're usually just whacked with one good one and that's you're lot for a spell. Having up to five om the trot in one day - it needs checking out. Something not right with that.

I'm sure in the main its all probably down to being run down and things getting on top of your immune systems ability to cope all at once, but always get a medical opinion on these things straight away, that way something can be done.

Once more, all the best with it. Sorry about your loss. Words simply aren't adequate to even begin what you must have had to go through with that.

Regards,

A

 

[candy]

I have not had a migraine since I started taking MSM (methylsulfonylmethane).

 

[ripleofdeath]

I presently have a permanent headache, there when I wake up, there when I go to sleep, one full week now. At its worst it makes me feel sick and I can't concentrate. A slight feeling of being 'drunk'. Oh and very painful at its worst obviously.

I suspect sinusitis.

Many things can cause headaches, yours being short may be due to caffeine/other diet related or blood pressure. Did you have Bp checked (sorry did not read all thread)?

Sorry to hear that
i hope it has got better by the time you are reading this.
I have another 5 days worth of anti biotics to go.
on ibuprophen for dental pain constantly which seems to work well for me
400mg around twice a day (24 hour period)
codine seems useles i tried 90mg of codine yesterday when i ran out of ibuprophen and it worked for about one hour and then left me feeling like i had taken speed with a stiff jaw and aching jaw and sore teeth (but i had actualy stuffedf myself with lolies )

oxygen would be a good easy safe step if you can get access to it.
also
sleep
i have been doing some crash study on pain and serotonin seems CRITICAL

Soo
Serotonin replacement and boosting along with dopamine and endorphines
all need a boost.

sleep deprevation is a catalyste for pain.

 

[ripleofdeath]

My pleasure old chap, just yes. Do make sure you do the doctor thing. The stuff concerning the infection with your teeth sounds about right - tooth infections are extremely tenacious, hard to clear up entirely and if they don't... well, you know the answer to that yourself.

From the sound you've got a cluster of things all going on at the same time, from what you relay I'd say you've likely been run down for some time. Considering what you've been through with you're family life, I's be massively surprised if stress wasn't playing a large part in your health and well being in general.

Don't let the term put you off - it's not all stuff just to do with what's going on in your head, it has profound, detrimental effects on health most especially ones immune system. As I say, off hand the problem with your teeth seems the most immediate and readily fixable.

As I say do make sure you go through all of your problems thoroughly with your doctor. With migraines you're usually just whacked with one good one and that's you're lot for a spell. Having up to five om the trot in one day - it needs checking out. Something not right with that.

I'm sure in the main its all probably down to being run down and things getting on top of your immune systems ability to cope all at once, but always get a medical opinion on these things straight away, that way something can be done.

Once more, all the best with it. Sorry about your loss. Words simply aren't adequate to even begin what you must have had to go through with that.

Regards,

A

Cheers [)|_|[)E
fingers crossed i should have a specialist appointment soonish.

 

[spear]

I am surprised that you haven't tried any of the "triptan" based medications ... such as Sumitriptan. Although specifically designed for chronic Migraines they have been successful against other forms of headaches as well. I know my girlfriend's mother was successfully treated with them and considers them a wonder drug. Although quite expensive per pill you can get the generic version very cheap on the internet (which works just as well).

 

[ripleofdeath]

I am surprised that you haven't tried any of the "triptan" based medications ... such as Sumitriptan. Although specifically designed for chronic Migraines they have been successful against other forms of headaches as well. I know my girlfriend's mother was successfully treated with them and considers them a wonder drug. Although quite expensive per pill you can get the generic version very cheap on the internet (which works just as well).

unfortunately i do not have a credit card so can not purchase anything online.
it is quite likely to be illegal topurchase them in my country also, without a doctors prescription.

 

[ripleofdeath]

interesting new development.
now codine does not seem to do anything.
which is a bit of an annoyance.
appart from dry me up like an anti hystermine.
hmmm
no more headaches oo far of anywhere close to the ones i had, but some interesting dental developments that are now waiting on some thousands of dollars to be fixed.
possibly needing 2 root canals if i can afford it before it gets to a point where they will just have to be pulled out.