Michio kaku is wrong

[too-open-minded]

Man-kind has stopped evolving?

please youtube the video on youtube with michio kaku discussing why man has stopped evolving.

Well he is very wrong but somewhat right. You see evolution has slowed down and this is partly because how much medical science has improved in the past 100 years. We don't have predators anymore, a lot of pressures on us have been lifted so yes the evolution of homo-sapiens has slowed down, but not stopped.

Evolution is not strictly something organisms due, it is a law of nature. Sexual attraction isn't the only thing thats attracting in the universe. Electrons are attracted to each other if theirs the right number of them. Matter is attracted to matter (gravity.)

We may have slowed down our evolution, but stopped? You cant stop time. People fail to realize about what charles darwin did. Evolution bridges the gap between organisms and matter. Of course biochemists haven't found any evidence of this yet. We only discovered evolution 100 years ago.

I believe we will continue to evolve and the day we stop is the day the earth stops. unless we get off this planet, then our evolution will skyrocket.

 

[Rav]

I totally agree with him. First of all, he addresses the common misconception that evolution has an end-game with respect to the future of the human race. It doesn't. We're not destined to become taller, thinner, and more intelligent. That's science fiction nonsense. Without significant selective pressures (such as those that certain groups of hominids have been subjected to in the past) a species tends to remain more or less the same. What room he leaves for some sort of continued evolution (and he does leave room for it) will be eclipsed by advances in medicine, biology and technology. Arguably, this has already happened in the developed world.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

I totally agree with him. First of all, he addresses the common misconception that evolution has an end-game with respect to the future of the human race. It doesn't. We're not destined to become taller, thinner, and more intelligent. That's science fiction nonsense. Without significant selective pressures (such as those that certain groups of hominids have been subjected to in the past) a species tends to remain more or less the same. What room he leaves for some sort of continued evolution (and he does leave room for it) will be eclipsed by advances in medicine, biology and technology. Arguably, this has already happened in the developed world.

Maybe for natural evolution, but humans are entering the age of genetic modification and will be able to tailor human evolution to our needs in the fairly near future and those changes will happen very fast compared to to natural evolution.

 

[too-open-minded]

I mean i agree with him to a degree but I just don't see evolution coming to a stopping point. It might slow down so much that we dont notice it, but it doesn't stop. Matter evolves, iron comes from stars. Iron is a key component in our biological anatomy.

Evolution is a law of nature, i cannot emphasize this enough.
Whether were influencing it to slow down or speed up, its still happening.

 

[Rav]

Oh, and just to get a little philosophical for a moment, technology itself (medical or otherwise) is ultimately a natural phenomenon. Why? Because we aren't invaders from a parallel universe or dimension. We are an expression of the universe we live in. We are nature, just as much as anything else is. So one could certainly argue that in whatever way the human race influences it's future development, it's still a natural process, albeit a conscious and intelligent one.

 

[Rav]

Maybe for natural evolution, but humans are entering the age of genetic modification and will be able to tailor human evolution to our needs in the fairly near future and those changes will happen very fast compared to to natural evolution.

Yeah, that's kinda the point that Michio was making, and I was echoing.

 

[Rav]

I mean i agree with him to a degree but I just don't see evolution coming to a stopping point. It might slow down so much that we dont notice it, but it doesn't stop. Matter evolves, iron comes from stars. Iron is a key component in our biological anatomy.

If one effect is subtle, and another is significant, which one has the greater effect over time? In 500 years, do you think it will have been natural selection, or medical/bio technology, that had the greatest effect on us? How about in 2000 years? 10,000? 100,000? At some point, assuming that we don't suffer some sort of technological atavism due to some terrible global disaster that is beyond our ability to mitigate, Darwinian natural selection isn't going to be a force that is significant enough to steer against those much more significant factors.

 

[too-open-minded]

Lol I should have just agreed with you when you said the human race will overall influence evolution more than the speed of evolution itself. I'm sorry i just don't like the concept of evolution stopping.

 

[Rav]

Lol I should have just agreed with you when you said the human race will overall influence evolution more than the speed of evolution itself. I'm sorry i just don't like the concept of evolution stopping.

It's evolution by Darwinian natural selection, specifically with respect to the macroscopic features of the human body, that's being relegated with respect to other factors influencing our development. As KilljoyKlown touches on, those other factors hold some very interesting possibilities for our future. In a few thousand years or so, we might be talking about our evolution throughout that time in a different way, that's all. Specifically, as a process that we directed, rather than one that was governed purely by environmental factors.

There's still some excitement in that, don't you think?

ETA: Also, no matter how much we are able to affect change, I think there are good reasons to believe that we'll naturally stick with our current appearance as a template. We're emotionally invested in that familiarity, so to speak.

 

[too-open-minded]

Oh yes i actually have a theory that if we were to revere our elementary schools as having more impact on education and invest more in them we would evolve faster. Think if from ages 3-6 school was only teaching children to out think their subconscious thoughts, overcome greed and anger. While teaching them basic number patterns, counting, and in-depth thinking exercises. Also a universal way of writing instead of speaking, as language is much harder to teach than writing.

Genetical engineering will be a large factor too.

 

[Johnny Nonsense]

Humans have, for the most part, stopped evolving. There's no point in having a nerdgasm over the tiny bit remaining just so you can point out that Mr. Kaku is wrong. I will call Kaku correct on this.

But here's the bigger picture... DNA is fragile. It *needs* to be fragile so that mutations can occur, and allow for rapid evolution. But the downside of this is that it causes babies to be stillborn - parents don't like that. DNA also breaks down over time, causing us to age faster, die early, and not feel so good in the process - nobody likes that. So, if we could somehow create a "sturdier" DNA, or develop a nanotechnology to periodically "refresh" our DNA to its original state, wouldn't you want it? Of course you would. And we'd also want the DNA in our zygotes to be examined and corrected wherever mistakes are found, so that babies would be born without DNA errors. That technology will be coming, and that technology is what will completely stop natural evolution - the kind that comes from mutations.

More or less simultaneously with that, we will being to use genetic engineering on human beings. At first, it will be pretty messy - when you solve one problem you can inadvertently create others. We can't even get traditional breeding done correctly in dogs, for example. There will be disagreements over what changes should be made - perhaps to the point where we split ourselves into multiple species. Eventually though, the technology could advance to the point of being able to test out changes to human DNA in a computer simulation to see that they produce only positive effects.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

That technology will be coming, and that technology is what will completely stop natural evolution - the kind that comes from mutations.

Natural evolution never stops completely. If you can make successful genetic changes of the same type in a community of humans. Those changes would be passed on and at the same time natural evolution will continue in that community the same as with all other species in the world. What really drives natural evolution is environmental stress, such as plague. It kills a large percentage of people, But the ones that don't die have various degrees of immunity that will be passed on to the next generation. So now we have less people that are likely to die from plague.

 

[Buddha12]

I believe we will continue to evolve and the day we stop is the day the earth stops. unless we get off this planet, then our evolution will skyrocket

Why will leaving Earth will make evolution "skyrocket"? Unless you mean millions of people leaving and in a few million years evolution continues and they evolove into something different.

 

[C C]

We may have slowed down our evolution, but stopped? You cant stop time.

"We have shown significant selection has been taking place in very recent populations, and likely still occurs, so humans continue to be affected by both natural and sexual selection. Although the specific pressures, the factors making some individuals able to survive better, or have better success at finding partners and produce more kids, have changed across time and differ in different populations."
http://phys.org/news/2012-04-darwinian-human-evolution.html

So yes, groups of people are still undergoing modifications, but there is no scheme underlying the process, with planned goals. For instance, in futurist speculation of the '50s and '60s (largely entertainment), tomorrow's humans were portrayed as evolving toward giant brains. In fact, just the opposite has been transpiring:

"Homo sapiens lived 20,000 to 30,000 years ago with an average weight between 176 and 188 pounds and a brain size of 1,500 cubic centimeters. [Researchers] discovered that some 10,000 years ago however, size started getting smaller both in stature and in brain size. Within the last 10 years, the average human size has changed to a weight between 154 and 176 pounds and a brain size of 1,350 cubic centimeters. While large size remained static for close to 200,000 years, researchers believe the reduction in stature can be connected to a change from the hunter-gatherer way of life to that of agriculture which began some 9,000 years ago." (Another explanation was that the shrinkage was due to our cultural memories being farmed-out to written records, rather the old tribal sages having to personally remember and pass-down educational information with the mnemonic aid of storytelling).
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-farming-blame-size-brains.html

But there are surely intermittent deviations in this generalized trend of the last 10,000 years, at least regarding skull size/shape. The world has known for some time that Americans have big heads, in a certain figurative sense, but perhaps somewhat surprising that it's literal as well:

"Joanne Devlin, adjunct assistant professor, examined 1,500 skulls dating back to the mid-1800s through the mid-1980s. They noticed U.S. skulls have become larger, taller and narrower as seen from the front and faces have become significantly narrower and higher. [...] The research only assessed Americans of European ancestry because they provided the largest sample sizes to work with. Richard Jantz said changes in skeletal structure are taking place in many parts of the world, but tend to be less studied. He said research has uncovered shifts in skull shape in Europe though it is not as dramatic as seen in the U.S."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120530115828.htm

 

[too-open-minded]

Johnny nonsense - Sorry for the nerdgasm, I just feel evolution isn't recognized or given as much credit as it should.

buddah12 - Well lets think about this for a second, living in a space ship without the gravity were used to having. I doubt well even be able to reproduce normally in space. Its not going to be like our atmosphere. eventually i don't see us needing the sense of smell and our nose might eventually go away. We wont be getting our vitamin D from the sun anymore, their will be an evolutionary route around that one in our skin. This will subject a lot of different pressures for us to evolve faster plus the speed of our own self induced evolution.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Johnny nonsense - Sorry for the nerdgasm, I just feel evolution isn't recognized or given as much credit as it should.

buddah12 - Well lets think about this for a second, living in a space ship without the gravity were used to having. I doubt well even be able to reproduce normally in space. Its not going to be like our atmosphere. eventually i don't see us needing the sense of smell and our nose might eventually go away. We wont be getting our vitamin D from the sun anymore, their will be an evolutionary route around that one in our skin. This will subject a lot of different pressures for us to evolve faster plus the speed of our own self induced evolution.

Maybe there's another side to evolution nobodies been considering. When true machine intelligence and self awareness happens. It will be because humans made it happen. It will be a non carbon & water based life form that could not have come into being without the aid of biological intelligence having evolved to the critical point needed for the creation of this new life form. But we really can't know this will happen until it does. But if it does, it will be because of evolutionary change that has brought us to this point in time.

 

[too-open-minded]

I'm not saying its impossible but I personally don't see that happening, at least for a very long time. The most powerful supercomputer is still crap compared to the human brain. We only invented technology like that in the past 80 or so years. Penn state had to stupify Einsteins equations for a computer to generate. As I have little knowledge about technology, I can't form a valid opinion.

It sounds possible, If so it most likley won't be in our lifetime.

 

[Epictetus]

Of course Michio Kaku is mistaken. Every new human being born is a mutation - not an exact copy of either parent, and it is just that person's good luck if they don't need to adapt to a newer or harsher environment. And yes with our modern life, modern ways and modern medicine the chance of any major changes is increasingly unlikely. If, say, global warming does occur and society changes in that we have far less technology, humanity would have to adapt somehow. Probably just some small, invisible change for my example, like greater tolerance to a warmer climate. Who is to say?

However, the way it looks now is that people will soon be altering themselves genetically and we will engineer our own evolution to suit various purposes, like deep-sea construction perhaps, and if that's what happens as far as natural evolution is concerned - all bets are off!

 

[too-open-minded]

Of course Michio Kaku is mistaken. Every new human being born is a mutation - not an exact copy of either parent, and it is just that person's good luck if they don't need to adapt to a newer or harsher environment. And yes with our modern life, modern ways and modern medicine the chance of any major changes is increasingly unlikely. If, say, global warming does occur and society changes in that we have far less technology, humanity would have to adapt somehow. Probably just some small, invisible change for my example, like greater tolerance to a warmer climate. Who is to say?

However, the way it looks now is that people will soon be altering themselves genetically and we will engineer our own evolution to suit various purposes, like deep-sea construction perhaps, and if that's what happens as far as natural evolution is concerned - all bets are off!

Very true but now that i look at it Michio was trying to make a point that our self induced evolution is more powerful than evolution itself. Think about it like evolution evolving. Everything evolves. Everything dies. It is the cycle of life.

 

[Epictetus]

Very true but now that i look at it Michio was trying to make a point that our self induced evolution is more powerful than evolution itself. Think about it like evolution evolving. Everything evolves. Everything dies. It is the cycle of life.

The only thing that is constant is change. This a known truth, and as far as human beings go, Solomon in Ecclesiastes is famously known to have said 'There is nothing new under the sun' - He couldn't have been more wrong; every new living creature, flora, fauna and human baby is something new and unique.