Memory and neurons

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What do we know about how memory works?

Currently, two distinct flavours are modelled: short-term, or "working" memory, and long-term "stored" memory.

Plasticity is thought to be fundamental to the latter (it explains how we can recall vivid memories easily - it's modelled as actual neuronal structure and persistent connections between neurons). Short-term memory is modelled as a transient (but stable) activity pattern.

Here's an abstract from Science about some neural research:

Science 14 March 2008:
Vol. 319. no. 5869, pp. 1543 - 1546
DOI: 10.1126/science.1150769

Synaptic Theory of Working Memory
Gianluigi Mongillo1 Omri Barak2 Misha Tsodyks2

It is usually assumed that enhanced spiking activity in the form of persistent reverberation for several seconds is the neural correlate of working memory.
Here, we propose that working memory is sustained by calcium-mediated synaptic facilitation in the recurrent connections of neocortical networks.
In this account, the presynaptic residual calcium is used as a buffer that is loaded, refreshed, and read out by spiking activity.
Because of the long time constants of calcium kinetics, the refresh rate can be low, resulting in a mechanism that is metabolically efficient and robust.
The duration and stability of working memory can be regulated by modulating the spontaneous activity in the network.

1 Group for Neural Theory, Département d'Etudes Cognitives, Ecole Normale Supérieure et Collège-de-France, Paris, France.
2 Department of Neurobiology, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel.

Working memory is a modulation of neural activity.
 
I don't want to know anything.
Except if anyone else knows anything about neurons.

(I already know everything that's worth thinking about, you see.):bugeye:

Actin - yes a protein found in muscle. Also [myosin] and other structural proteins involved in neural plasticity.
There's a continuous assessment made of every synapse, and some are tagged for degradation (permanently disconnected). This is thought to be how the brain "focuses" memory - by keeping the connections pared to a minimum.

The ER in cells is thought to be involved in transport of stuff around the cytoplasm. It's made out of actin and pectin and other similar "stretchy" proteins.
 
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Currently, two distinct flavours are modelled: short-term, or "working" memory, and long-term "stored" memory.

Don't forget sensory memory which only lasts milliseconds.

And the three 'brands' of memory are also further subdivided into other categories.

This, of course, is all high level modeling. Virtually nothing is known about the nuts and bolts of how memory is stored. The 'code', that is. Lots of theory, but we're not there yet.

Maybe in a few more years we'll figure out how to decode the brain.

The ER in cells is thought to be involved in transport of stuff around the cytoplasm. It's made out of actin and pectin and other similar "stretchy" proteins.

The endoplasmic reticulum is a step in creating proteins destined for outside the cell or embedded in the membrane, yes? I don't understand why you're bringing it up in particular.

And, it's made out of lipids, isn't it? It's basically just a bilipid membrane inside the cell. Then it buds off vesicles to the golgi apparatus for shuttling to export or the membrane...
 
Wait.
You're thinking of the cytoskeleton.
Completely different critter.
It would be important if neurons store memory in their shape. Of course, we don't know if that's the case or not.
 
there is a chemical (I forget the name ;p that disrupts actin polymerization this supposedly acts to remove all long term memory IF the memory is being recalled. Ergo there is no "place" of long term storage, if you thin of a long term memory then you ARE modifying that memory and will remember it the way you thought about it. If during this remembering phase you are given electro shock therapy or this chemical then you will lose that memory.
 
What do we know about how memory works?
No if referring to the physiology of it. Somewhat if referring to things like concepts or pictorial association items are easier to remember than the same quantity of information not related. Note however phonetic similar word lists are more difficult to remember than phonetic different ones. Tall, ball, fall, call, bawl, maul, doll etc harder than: kite, dog, red, now, book, girl, run, etc. and lots of tricks like the method of loci.

Luria has book exploring the capacity of a man who could remember (as I recall) several thousand items, for days. He used the method of loci. I.e. had a mental walk with "resting places" where he mentally put the objects to remember down. In one test he only made one mistake -failed to remember one object, which was a white egg.

As it happened, the egg was placed down at the next pre-memorized "resting place," which happened to be a white wall or bowl (I forget) so days later when he was to recall the objects in order, he did not "see" the white egg against the white wall. I.e. he could mentally image or "see" in his mind during the standard walk the objects he had mentally put in the sequence of "resting places" but not the white egg against the white background of its resting place. It did not "pop out" at him as a new object in that resting place's scene.
Currently, two distinct flavours are modelled: short-term or "working" memory, and long-term "stored" memory.
There is a third - sensory memory, especially (perhaps only?) for sudden changes like someone talking at party while you are paying attention to someone else. (Or more scientifically tested with ear phones playing two different streams of speech in your two different ears) I will not go into detail (See Dichotic listening experiments) but both streams are processed automatically to quite a high level (You brain parses the streams in to words, looks the word up in your "lexicon" to find their meaning, construct the sentence grammar but you are only conscious of one stream at a time.) Perhaps you have been told to "pay attention" to the woman talking and ignore the man. If the man says "I will hit john" or "see the green shit" then if your name is John you will be able to "replay" or step back in time by "sensory memory" to still hear the "I will hit" that came before "john." If you name is not john, you will not break away from the woman's voice you are "attending to." In the case of swear words (In you native language, of course) they usually will also steal your attention and you can hear a few words that proceed them also.

This "sensory memory" is of shorter duration than "short term" memory. (0.5 seconds or less is all that is still available to you.) It probably is due to the fact the transitory neural activity quite early in the sensory system has not entirely decayed away. Closely related are experiment known as "masking experiments" if you are interested in more.
 
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invert said:
It would be important if neurons store memory in their shape. Of course, we don't know if that's the case or not.
It is important, because neurons do "store" memory in their shape ('specially the shape of synaptic connections). It's called plasticity.

BTW quite a few neurologists and researchers are fairly sure that this is the case or not.
Knowing something to be the case is a different story though...

Abstract

Cyclin-dependent kinase 5 in synaptic plasticity, learning and memory

Marco Angelo, Florian Plattner and K. Peter Giese
Wolfson Institute for Biomedical Research, University College London, London, UK

Cyclin-dependent kinase 5 (Cdk5) is a serine/threonine kinase with a multitude of functions.
Although Cdk5 is widely expressed, it has been studied most extensively in neurons.
Since its initial characterization, the fundamental contribution of Cdk5 to an impressive range of neuronal processes has become clear.
These phenomena include neural development, dopaminergic function and neurodegeneration.
Data from different fields have recently converged to provide evidence for the participation of Cdk5 in synaptic plasticity, learning and memory.

In this review, we consider recent data implicating Cdk5 in molecular and cellular mechanisms underlying synaptic plasticity. We relate these findings to its emerging role in learning and memory.
Particular attention is paid to the activation of Cdk5 by p25, which enhances hippocampal synaptic plasticity and memory, and suggests formation of p25 as a physiological process regulating synaptic plasticity and memory.
 
Haven't been able to locate a definitive source for "sensory" and "short-term" memory. But I found this lot about short-term plasticity:
Calcium Channel Subtypes and Short-Term Synaptic Plasticity

Carlota Gonza´lez Inchauspe, Francisco J. Martini, Ian D. Forsythe, and Osvaldo D. Uchitel.
Anita Scheuber, Richard Miles, and Jean Christophe Poncer

Facilitation of transmitter release occurs with successive calcium channel openings,
but the molecules mediating the phenomenon are still unclear.
This week, two papers examine the roles of presynaptic calcium channels in facilitation.
Gonza´lez Inchauspe et al. measured calcium currents and transmitter release at the giant calyx of Held synapse in mice lacking Cav2.1, the pore-forming subunit of P/Q-type calcium channels.
N-type calcium channels (Cav2.2) were able to support vesicle release, but paired-pulse facilitation of synaptic responses and presynaptic
calcium currents were absent.
The authors suggest that P/Q channels underlie facilitation.
Scheuber et al. examine a similar question in the rat CA3/CA1 hippocampal pathway but come to a different conclusion.
They pharmacologically separated calcium channel types and found that facilitation was augmented when Cav2.1 was blocked but diminished with Cav2.2 block.
Voltage-dependent relief of G-protein-mediated channel inhibition of Cav2.2 channels was responsible for this form of short-term plasticity.
--The Journal of Neuroscience
November 17, 2004 • Volume 24 Number 46 www.jneurosci.org

Jääskeläinen IP, Ahveninen J, Belliveau JW, Raij T, Sams M

Short-term plasticity in auditory cognition.

Converging lines of evidence suggest that auditory system short-term plasticity can enable several perceptual and cognitive functions that have been previously considered as relatively distinct phenomena.
Here we review recent findings suggesting that auditory stimulation, auditory selective attention and cross-modal effects of visual stimulation each cause transient excitatory and (surround) inhibitory modulations in the auditory cortex.
These modulations might adaptively tune hierarchically organized sound feature maps of the auditory cortex (e.g. tonotopy), thus filtering relevant sounds during rapidly changing environmental and task demands.
This could support auditory sensory memory, pre-attentive detection of sound novelty, enhanced perception during selective attention, influence of visual processing on auditory perception and longer-term plastic changes associated with perceptual learning.
--Trends Neurosci. 2007 Dec;30(12):653-61.
 
It is important, because neurons do "store" memory in their shape ('specially the shape of synaptic connections). It's called plasticity.

It's a theory.

It is likely though. But, there are things such as 'grandmother cells' that sometimes throw a wrench in the works.

BTW quite a few neurologists and researchers are fairly sure that this is the case or not.

Does this mean that noboy knows for sure? That 'not' there kinda invalidates the surety of the previous words.

Haven't been able to locate a definitive source for "sensory" and "short-term" memory. But I found this lot about short-term plasticity:

Be careful to not merge the terms "short term memory" and "short term plasticity". You seem in danger of doing so.

By the way, you were referring to the cytoskeleton, yes?

Another by the way, poring over abstracts is next to useless, the meat is generally in the papers themselves and unless you have access, the abstracts are not going to be very helpful.
 
invert_nexus said:
Be careful to not merge the terms "short term memory" and "short term plasticity". You seem in danger of doing so.
There's a danger?
Of implying memory and plasticity are the same thing?

By the way, you were referring to the cytoskeleton, yes?
The endoplasmic reticulum (a major structural feature, of neurons, and most cells).

P.S. I made an even bigger boo-boo with pectin, which is found in cell walls of plants. It isn't a protein. But it's an important part of a herbivore's diet (and humans diet).

Anyways, actin units can make filaments and cables, rings and "patches". It associates with other structural proteins (and of course enzymes), with generally cryptic names. Like formin, and reticulin, also a type of myosin (like in muscle).
It appears to be ubiquitous to eukaryote cell structure. It's involved in cytoplasmic streaming (cell movement, axonal extension, pseudopoda).
 
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Billy T said:
This "sensory memory" is of shorter duration than "short term" memory. (0.5 seconds or less is all that is still available to you.) It probably is due to the fact the transitory neural activity quite early in the sensory system has not entirely decayed away. Closely related are experiment known as "masking experiments" if you are interested in more.
Would it be "safe" to conjecture that the sensory form is an excitation or resonance of some kind, a stimulation at the "outer" levels (the neurosensory paradigm), and that short and long term are due to persistence, as the above abstracts outline, and the eventual shape of connections (the neurological "memory" paradigm is largely neurostructural)?
 
There's a danger?
Of implying memory and plasticity are the same thing?

Yes. Plasticity refers to the ability of neurons to reshape their connections whereas memory refers to storage of... memories.
It's possible, in fact likely, that plasticity is involved in memory formation and storage; but plasticity is involved in far more than just memory.
Sensory, motor, functional, etc.

The endoplasmic reticulum (a major structural feature, of neurons, and most cells).

I gave you the opportunity to gracefully correct yourself.
The endoplasmic reticulum is not made of actin/pectin. Although it's convoluted shape is held together by the cytoskeleton, but that's nothing special as that's what the cytoskeleton does. Provide structure for the cell.

Nor is it "thought to be involved in transport of stuff around the cytoplasm."
Well, not really. It is vital in the transport of proteins, but specifically proteins which are meant for either export or being embedded within the membrane. And it would be better described as a factory than a transport mechanism. It provides a different environment than the cytoplasm in which proteins might fold and also stretches of membrane in which the proteins can attach themselves before budding off towards the membrane proper.

The endoplasmic reticulum is basically just a convoluted vesicle bounded by a bilipid membrane.


You're thinking of the cytoskeleton. The cytoskeleton is a network of fibers that crisscross the cell and gives it its structure. It is composed of actin amongst other structural proteins. And it is vital to the transport of proteins throughout the cell as the actin fibers actually act as a highway which the transport mechanisms can traverse.

Anyways, actin units can make filaments and cables, rings and "patches". It associates with other structural proteins (and of course enzymes), with generally cryptic names. Like formin, and reticulin, also a type of myosin (like in muscle).
It appears to be ubiquitous to eukaryote cell structure. It's involved in cytoplasmic streaming (cell movement, axonal extension, pseudopoda).

I really don't understand why you're going on about this. Perhaps if you explained what you're trying to get out a bit clearer.

Would it be "safe" to conjecture that the sensory form is an excitation or resonance of some kind, a stimulation at the "outer" levels (the neurosensory paradigm), and that short and long term are due to persistence, as the above abstracts outline, and the eventual shape of connections (the neurological "memory" paradigm is largely neurostructural)?

Is it safe to assume that sensory memory doesn't involve plasticity?
I doubt it.
Conjecture?
Sure.
You could conjecture it involves magic pixies if you wanted to.
 
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Yes the thing made out of mostly actin that turns into that filamentous network, and connects everything, or holds it all together, the nucleus and the ER are connected as well; but yes I got that wrong, the ER's a factory and the network, or skeleton is what moves all the bits around.

Actin is everywhere, which would indicate it's a protein that turned up early. An essential building block, you could say. It moves because it assembles and dissasembles, along with other structural proteins, chaperone enzymes, and proteases, no?

And magic isn't an option, where plasticity in neurons (or any other cell) and what short-term or sensory memory is supposed to mean. But, it might be in there with quantum transport of entangled thoughts.

Why does a "sensory" memory hang around at all? Why would there need to be a third structural kind of information along with the short and long term kinds?

What I mean with "neurosensory", is the specialised neuronal cells that are deployed as the the sensory apparatus, and the attendant "helper" type cells. The neural architecture looks kind of layered.
 
... Why does a "sensory" memory hang around at all? Why would there need to be a third structural kind of information along with the short and long term kinds? ...
It is not a "need" and it is not "structural" IMHO. Just a consequence of how nerves encode information. Most who know that information is encoded by specific sets of nerves and their "rate of discharge" do not know that it is by the CHANGE in rate of discharge. I.e. all nervers are constantly with their normal "not in use" discharge rates, which can be a couple of hundred pulse per second.

Probably both short term and long term memory do involve some sort of "structural change" but probably not "sensory memory." I think that is more accurately described as a "metabolic excursion." Sort of like the complimentary color effect is. (Stare at red spot for few minutes and then look at white paper and see same shape green spot.) The more fascinating "waterfall effect" is also due to metabolic fatigue, in V3 nerves, I think, from memory. If after watching a set of parallel, evenly-spaced, lines move at constant speed (New line appearing as old one leaves the display screen, so it is always filled with lines.)* the motion of the lines is stopped, then they will be perceived as moving in the opposite direction. It is really a strange sensation. You can put your finger on one of the lines, firmly fixing it in space, yet you sense it is moving despite remaining at that one location. (Their "regular spacing" is essential as there is something like a Fourier transform also being done to process and understand images and you need this transform to be sharply peaked - driving some small set of nerves hard. It may seems strange, but it is true, that we quickly get rid of the 2D representation of V1 and work in the transform space, just as I will now explain for color also.)

All three (sensory memory, after image, and waterfall effect) and several others are due to the way information is encoded in neural impulses. For example, after some well known algebraic transformation (I am too lazy to dig the equations up for you.) the activity in the three different color sensitive retina cells (R,B,G - the same three colors you will see if you examine dots of color TV screen up close) are in V5 encoded onto three "axis" (BW, RG, & BY or Black white, Red green, and Blue yellow). The same set of V5 nerves indicate, for example, both blue and yellow. (Another set, both red and green, and the BW axis gives the intensity.)

This is the way almost everything is encoded in the brain. I.e. by a change in the rate of neural discharge. I forget which way it goes, perhaps a high rate in the RG set of nerves corresponds to "red" and a low rate corresponds to "green" (or conversely - as I said, I forget which now, but to continue my discussion, assume red is rapid discharge, pink less rapid, but still more rapid than white, etc.)

Thus, when you are looking at red spot the RG set of nerves in V5 is discharging rapidly (compared to looking at a white sheet) and becomes slower as the metabolic resources immediately available are used more rapidly than if looking at white paper. So immediately after switching to look at an only white paper the rate drops below the appropriate discharge rate for "white" - I.e. you see green.

I think this is what is happening in "sensory memory" also, but the name is a little wrong. The metabolic depletion is more central than the peripheral nerves. To pick up my previous example with Dichotic listening, where the unattended, male voice said: "I will hit John." the sound pattern of the word hit (its phonemic structure) was ""looked up" in your "lexicon" to retrieve the meaning** and this used up some of the metabolic potential of those "lexicon nerves" slightly. - Use made their firing at less than their normal "not in use" rate. So for a small fraction of a second, with switch of attention to the male voice the mention of your name (john) caused you can still recover the fact that the sentence with "John" has also the word "hit" and by automatic amazing processes rebuild that now gone sentence.

This is why I called "sensory memory" a "metabolic", not a "structural" memory mechanism.

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*Easy program to write. - I made one in Quick Basic years ago of only about 20 lines of code which moved the set of displayed lines until I hit the space bar. (used it as wanted to keep looking at the screen.) It had input data parameters to control line width, color, velocity, motion direction and spacing and a simple test to create a new horizontal line at top of screen (if lines were moving down) from the one disappearing at the bottom.

**And many other "lexicon facts", such as fact "hit", if usually plays the role of a verb*** in whatever sentence the brain should construct from this string of phonemes. Furthermore, the lexicon also contains the fact that some other subsection of the sentence (actually still just a "phonetic stream") to be constructed is hit's mandatory object (Hit is a transitory verb).

***Hit can also play the role of an adjective as in "The party was a hit." Building a sentence from the string of phonemes is quite a complex task especially when there are many different roles some strings looked up in the lexicon can play. Even the printed word (verbalized silently as you read) is sometimes difficult to correctly construct. This also has to do with the "7 limit" to short term memory. I.e. if as the sentence is read, the compination of the number of "possible roles" some of the words can play gets too large to keep in short term memory, you will automatically throw out some of the less probably possibilities to keep the remaining ones active.

There are some famous "garden path" sentences (as in "lead down the garden path") where most people will discard the correct role prematurely and thus not be able to make any sense of the string of words read. For example, the following is a perfectly good English sentence, but I have not put in the normal punctuation signs to help you read it correctly:

The horse raced past the red barn on the hill fell.
 
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The way I see it is there are two fundamental metabolic processes in neurological function: electrical signalling (pulse trains) and structure (plasticity).
Why that means we can see three kinds of "remembering" in a brain is maybe still open to question.

The resolution we now have has revealed a much more heirarchical and interconnected system - between various neurological structures and also between groups (clusters) of neurons; the last 10-12 years has seen the "decoding" of some of the "language" that neurons communicate with, or at least some of the syllables, if not whole words.

The brain, and long-term plasticity seem to be where long-term memory "resides" - as a permanent set of connections that are activated with a minimum of signalling (interrogation?), and appears to be stable (structurally) and entropically (it lasts and is "easy" to recall). Short-term plasticity and activation patterns work on a shorter and more energetic timescale.
The sensory apparatus (which is at least 2-level, with "surface" neural assemblies, and the complementary ones located closer to the cortex) is possibly mostly neural signalling, memory is possibly mostly structure).

But that's a very oversimplified model - the somatosensory system(s) are a collection of differentiated neurons, like different parts of an organic computer, each with varied filtering and encoding functions, different feedback influences (modulations) of the overall "image" of the somatic self - spatial "existence" or awareness of a physical body (and that it "occupies" space).

We have better maps of the layout, but we still don't really understand the language; we know that neurons don't fire and forget - it's highly ordered trains of pulses and they can "stimulate" or "deaden" activity in the receiving neuron.

The horse raced past the red barn on the hill fell.
If you read this "non-scanning" sentence back to front, it's easier to separate the two statements or verbal clauses: "the barn fell" and "the horse raced".
Reading it left to right, it's easy to "mistake" the connection between the two (maybe because there "should" be a comma after the word "past", which changes the expectation).

Neurologists would probably be able to fill several pages, with what's happening in neural terms when we do something like read such a sentence (or open a door and walk through it).
 
...If you read this "non-scanning" sentence back to front, it's easier to separate the two statements or verbal clauses: "the barn fell" and "the horse raced" ...
No, neither is the correct version, or even part of it. You are still discarding the information that is in your lexicon to make the sentence simple and correct as it is an likely posibility and you can not keep all posibilities active all the way to the end of the sentence. You are clearly still being "lead down the garden path." Neither of your two alternative gramatical structures is correct. I will not explain yet so others have a chance to try to get it right.

You are however on the right analytical approach to recovering the lexicon data you discarded. - I.e. reduce the sententence to its minimum number of words. (three) It is just that you do not have the correct three. Normally no such "analytical approach" is required. - I.e. you normally automatically and totally unconsciously get the correct gramatical structure and meaning. Your's are still totally wrong, even with this conscious analytical approach!
 
Ok, assuming there is a long-term storage, a "lexicon" or an associative memory, we have that we're applying to the sentence.

Where does it lead, apart from a linguistic analysis, or a look at "deep structure" or whatever?
What sort of view does it give of memory?

e.g.
The horse raced past the red barn on the hill fell.
 
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here are some thoughts on memory

Keeping in mind it is possible to recall feelings, and things which are not composed of words, I'm not sure what you can draw from an analogy between language phrase trees and memory structure.

What about an instance where you can remember what a friend said but not understand what it meant. That's a case of memorized words without enough memorized context.

But at the same time I remember a song I listened to in Austria when I was younger. I could recall it years later and experience the same feelings I had when I was there, as if I was there.

It's like the symbolic representation of the universe at the time got encoded in the music's meaning... or something.
 
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