Meaning: It's meaningless

[TheERK]

Why should God be necessary for there to be a "meaning" of life? Why should believing in and serving God provide any more meaning than "believing in" and serving your boss at work?

 

[bigal]

The meaning of life?

For the love of...

 

[moementum7]

Beacuse if you beleive in God, then you are an altruist.
Meaning that the highest moral virtue you can acheive is by serving others.
Placing anyone and everyone before yourself.
Helping those in need is your highest moral duty.
If there was no one watching you, like a God, then why would you want to help others if there was no reward in an after life or fear of punishment?
You wouldn't.
So because even though the majority of people beleive in altruism, even if they do not have a conviction in the beleif of God, there is no meaning in life unless there is a God to reward you. Why?, cause nobody else will with altruism.Reward you with virtue anyways.
Nobody would want to serve others if there was no god, espeacially your boss. Or unless he is paying you good money.If your an altruist.

Bottom line, if your an altruist, only God promises you any sense of virtue, in other words, meaning in life.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Beacuse if you beleive in God, then you are an altruist.
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M*W: Believing in and loving all of humanity and creation makes you an altruist. Humanity is God.
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moementum7: Meaning that the highest moral virtue you can acheive is by serving others.
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M*W: Serving others without profit of self is altruism. The highest moral virtue you can achieve is total forgiveness for your self and your fellow human being.
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moementum7: Placing anyone and everyone before yourself. Helping those in need is your highest moral duty. If there was no one watching you, like a God, then why would you want to help others if there was no reward in an after life or fear of punishment?
You wouldn't. So because even though the majority of people beleive in altruism, even if they do not have a conviction in the beleif of God, there is no meaning in life unless there is a God to reward you. Why?, cause nobody else will with altruism. Reward you with virtue anyways. Nobody would want to serve others if there was no god, espeacially your boss. Or unless he is paying you good money.If your an altruist.
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M*W: Placing anyone and everyone before yourself makes you a doormat UNLESS you have total, sincere forgiveness for yourself and all of humanity. Even if all of humanity has not hurt you, all of humanity is HURTING. Forgive humanity for it's guilt. Do it daily. Forgive your next door neighbor even if he hasn't insulted you. Forgive your parents, your teachers, your siblings for what you DON'T know they've thought or done to you. Forgive your children. Forgive your pets. Forgive yourself for what you have done and what you have failed to do. Forgiveness is the door to enlightenment.
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moementum7: Bottom line, if your an altruist, only God promises you any sense of virtue, in other words, meaning in life.

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M*W: It is necessary to be altruistic to humanity and creation. God promises nothing. After he created humanity, he left it up to humanity to serve in His/Its image. The meaning of life comes with the interconnectedness that humanity is God all along.

 

[Q25]

If there was no one watching you, like a God, then why would you want to help others if there was no reward in an after life or fear of punishment?

b/c there is reward in this life!
if you are good and help others everyone will like you,and help you when you need help,
and if you are bad,
people will hate and avoid you and you wont have any friends,
like they say:what goes around comes around

 

[Q25]

The meaning of life?
.

is LIVING !
imho

 

[TheERK]

Beacuse if you beleive in God, then you are an altruist.

This is not necessarily true. You can believe in God without giving a crap about others.

Meaning that the highest moral virtue you can acheive is by serving others.
Placing anyone and everyone before yourself.
Helping those in need is your highest moral duty.

This is absolutely nothing to do with God.

If there was no one watching you, like a God, then why would you want to help others if there was no reward in an after life or fear of punishment?

This is P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

If the only reason you do good is because you will be rewarded in an afterlife, isn't that complete selfishness? Also, are you suggesting that people who don't believe in an afterlife never do good? If so, you're an idiot. Call that an ad-hom, but I don't care: anybody who actually believes that the only reason people do good is due to anticipation of future reward/punishment is bigoted and wrong.

So because even though the majority of people beleive in altruism, even if they do not have a conviction in the beleif of God, there is no meaning in life unless there is a God to reward you. Why?, cause nobody else will with altruism.

First of all, this is a direct contradiction to what you said above. Second of all, it is wrong. People reward kindness with kindness in return quite often.

Nobody would want to serve others if there was no god, espeacially your boss. Or unless he is paying you good money.If your an altruist.

Bullcrap. What about philanthropists who happen to be atheists?

 

[wesmorris]

Meaning is as fleeting as the moment. Does that make it any less real?

 

[water]

M 7,

The danger of being a philantrophist and an altruist is this:

"Philanthropic people lose all sense of humanity."

Said Oscar Wilde in The Picture of Dorian Gray.

If you keep on looking at others so much, you'll lose the touch eventually.

 

[invert_nexus]

You only need god if you want an imposed meaning. This is useful in coordinating large groups of people to have similar meanings in common, so that they will integrate into a group better. Unfortunately, religions are so varied that it mostly creates differences in meaning. And also, individual interpretations of religious scripture vary; creating more differences.

Without god, one's meaning is self-imposed. And to you, this may sound like a free-for-all; but in reality, society is fully capable of coming to an agreement of acceptable meaning and value without god's help. Maybe better, but I doubt if there has ever been a society that has been able to put this to the test. Gods of one sort or another have been around far too long.

 

[Jenyar]

... society is fully capable of coming to an agreement of acceptable meaning and value without god's help

Self-imposed meaning becomes social meaning. But agreement is not enough to create meaning. If everybody agreed life was meaningless, it would really be meaningless. But if God gave meaning to life, then it would have meaning no matter what your personal perspective or the consensus was. Life would have inherent meaning "whether you like it or not". Of course you're free to discover this as you feel comfortable, whether from personal confirmation, social agreement, a book - but in the end you have to decide whether this meaning is dependent on you (i.e. something ceases to have value when you cease to see it) or you simply discovered an inherent value (that remains valid whether you think it does or not).

Keep in mind that morality is based on the latter perspective, since even socially agreed practices can be judged by whether it is moral or not. Here's a good mental exercise: if you were the last person on earth, where would you find meaning?

 

[path]

b/c there is reward in this life!
if you are good and help others everyone will like you,and help you when you need help,

Very true, a case in point from my life. Awhile back my wife and I had 5 of our friends move in the space of a year and we always went to help out. When we moved a year later without having to ask for it we had 13 people show up on moving day to help us, now that was nice

We can also ask the question who is more moral, someone who helps others because there is a god telling them to and he will be rewarded with heaven or someone who does it without being told to by some higher authority who receives no other reward than another persons friendship and help.

 

[Jenyar]

We can also ask the question who is more moral, someone who helps others because there is a god telling them to and he will be rewarded with heaven or someone who does it without being told to by some higher authority who receives no other reward than another persons friendship and help.

You mean, someone who expects his reward from God is less moral than someone who expects thanks from people?

I'll tell you the difference. Someone who believes it is their duty to help expects no reward, because that is what he is supposed to do, while someone who thinks he's so great because he helped someone expects to be rewarded. What God told us is that we should not expect any reward, because He will reward us. That allows for greater morals, not less.

 

[path]

You mean, someone who expects his reward from God is less moral than someone who expects thanks from people?

OK maybe who is more moral is too strong try "what is more virtuous"

I'll tell you the difference. Someone who believes it is their duty to help expects no reward, because that is what he is supposed to do, while someone who thinks he's so great because he helped someone expects to be rewarded. What God told us is that we should not expect any reward, because He will reward us. That allows for greater morals, not less.

You just said in one sentence "we don't expect reward because we are going to get a reward" To help someone else because it fells right or natural to you as an individual seems more virtuous to me than helping someone else because God said it's right and you will get the perks in the end to boot.

 

[Tiassa]

Why should God be necessary for there to be a "meaning" of life? Why should believing in and serving God provide any more meaning than "believing in" and serving your boss at work?

It shouldn't. People just want life to be more significant in the grand scheme of things.

In terms of identity politics, well ... it's just a lack of creativity.

Meaning is as fleeting as the moment. Does that make it any less real?

In all honesty, ask me about that the next time I'm shrooming.

General note on a topical theme:

There is a meaning to life. It's just that we make it important and pretend we need to know it. Sure, it would be nice, but even if the meaning of life is simply, "Be alive," there is still meaning.

We're talking about humanity here. On the one hand, we climb the mountain because it's there. To the other, we learn to laugh at a chicken trying not to get mowed down at a local intersection. Either way, there is a meaning to life; I just don't think it's a stretch compared to very common aspects of humanity.

 

[Jenyar]

You just said in one sentence "we don't expect reward because we are going to get a reward" To help someone else because it fells right or natural to you as an individual seems more virtuous to me than helping someone else because God said it's right and you will get the perks in the end to boot.

Tell me path, if it's so certain that we will receive that reward, why aren't more people trying to get it? The problem is that not many people are willing to work to store up "a treasure in heaven", they'd rather work for their own.

You see, there's a little catch you are conveniently overlooking: that it requires faith to believe in God, and that a reward lies in the next life. Enough faith to give up whatever reward one might usually be able to expect in this life. That faith requires a greater sacrifice than someone who is, say, just willing to help those who are in a position to reward him in this life.

So a person who helps another with no rewards at all cannot believe in justice, because justice requires that every person receives his due - whether good or bad. And he will find it hard to persevere, because ultimately he can be overwhelmed by the fact that he knows he's losing out. But a person who gives up his whole life with the faith that he will get it back does believe in justice, and because his reward depends on it, will make all the more sure that it prevails - and he will have every ounce of his life to put into it without claiming back anything for himself.

Of course both of these are ideals. The reality lies somewhere in the middle. The truth is most people deserve equal credit for what they do, and equal punishment for their crimes. This discussion is ultimately just theoretical.

 

[path]

Tell me path, if it's so certain that we will receive that reward, why aren't more people trying to get it? The problem is that not many people are willing to work to store up "a treasure in heaven", they'd rather work for their own.

I personally am not trying to get it because I believe it is a false carrot held out to humanity to try and get people to tow the line of your particular faith. The treasure I work for is a happy family, good friends and a comfortable life

You see, there's a little catch you are conveniently overlooking: that it requires faith to believe in God, and that a reward lies in the next life. Enough faith to give up whatever reward one might usually be able to expect in this life. That faith requires a greater sacrifice than someone who is, say, just willing to help those who are in a position to reward him in this life.

I am not overlooking anything what you are conveniently overlooking is that the reward held out to the faithful is an ETERNITY IN HEAVEN. Compared to that doing good deeds and showing kindness to others for the reward of a temporal friendship or just because it feels good is working for peanuts

So a person who helps another with no rewards at all cannot believe in justice, because justice requires that every person receives his due - whether good or bad.
And he will find it hard to persevere, because ultimately he can be overwhelmed by the fact that he knows he's losing out. But a person who gives up his whole life with the faith that he will get it back does believe in justice, and because his reward depends on it, will make all the more sure that it prevails - and he will have every ounce of his life to put into it without claiming back anything for himself.

Societal behavior has it's own built in system of justice if someone recieves help constantly but never can be bothered to reciprocate then eventually there will be noone willing to help that person anymore. You give up your whole fleeting existence to faith and recieve an eternity in heaven or don't and spend an eternity in hell as far as justice goes this is way over the top isn't it. I do good deeds for much less than that I don't need an eternity in heaven or hell to prod me

Of course both of these are ideals. The reality lies somewhere in the middle. The truth is most people deserve equal credit for what they do, and equal punishment for their crimes. This discussion is ultimately just theoretical.

True

 

[Jenyar]

I personally am not trying to get it because I believe it is a false carrot held out to humanity to try and get people to tow the line of your particular faith. The treasure I work for is a happy family, good friends and a comfortable life

Those things are gifts, and I'll tell you why I say that. Happy families can split, good friends may desert you when you need them most, and a comfortable life is usually dependant on all those things. You cannot deserve them, no matter how much you work at it - they all come down to one thing: love. And that's already no more than what God expect from us.

I do good deeds for much less than that I don't need an eternity in heaven or hell to prod me

Good for you. But if you're honest you'll admit that not even the most pious Christian thinks by himself, "hmm... you know what, I will love my enemies because ultimately it will be worth it". An eternity in heaven seems very far removed from your present circumstances even when it's going well. In other words, it's not the reward itself that pulls me through - it's the faith it requires. Pain is no less real or painful because I believe in God, hard work doesn't become easier, and life usually doesn't make more sense. I do find comfort in God, but it doesn't take away the fact that I need comfort from friends and family as well.

It's not a false carrot, though. It offers real hope and comfort that finds real application in life. I won't defend religion as such, because it is mostly man-made - but at the same time I don't think that everything man achieved has been worthless or devoid of any truth. And I most certainly don't think God is unable to provide real hope or real salvation to anybody. I'm thankful for my friends and family, because they're a reward for something I never did.

 

[wesmorris]

Hey let me get on that goat for a minute there. I wanna show it my "O-face".

 

[stretched]

Yo,

I don`t get why god would have us live this earthly life if true meaning is only consumated in the so called "after life"? The complexity of the Universe and all in it seems a little extravagant if we are living in faith, hoping for all to be revealed, after our death. Yup, maybe life teaches us lessons for the hereafter, but the here and now is all we have for sure. Isn`t that the point?

Allcare.