Masters of the Himalayas:

Carcano

Carcano

Valued Senior Member
Check out this excellent documentary on the Yogis of Tibet!

http://divxlive.com/video-44-1585355

As I was watching I kept thinking about what Dawkins would say about these traditions.

Probably that what these Masters call 'enlightenment' is really just the hallucinations of deprivation.

Food, sleep and sex.
 
I think it is the shifting of blood to the occipital lobe and subsequent visual stimulation. I know people who can do it and they are not religous and don't deprive themselves of food and sleep and sex. BUT, they do say it's difficult to do if you eat meat from an animal that's closely related to human. Fish seems ok though.
 
Michael said:
I think it is the shifting of blood to the occipital lobe and subsequent visual stimulation.
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Ah, but Buddhist concepts of enlightenment are not based on any extraordinary visual phenomena or experience.

Although such things can happen, they are merely thought to be a kind of distracting scenery along the way.
 
I guess I don't know the Buddhist meaning of enlightenment.
I know people who do the practice and can achieve a feeling of nothingness and be "one with the universe" and they have no religous beleif and their idea of enlightenment is probably something similar to my own. A personal understanding of the human condition.


There is a part of the brain that recognizes self from non self. Disrupt the blood flow, or damage, to that area and a person will feel like they are one with the universe. dehydration and lack of sugars can probably do something to that area of the brain to cause a feeling of oneness. AKA not distinguish self from non self.
 
Most people don't know what the real enlightenment that Gautama Buddha taught really is, these people practice meditating on voidness and nothingness and acheive deep relaxation and just simple peace, completely missing what Gautama Buddha actually taught in the Buddhist scriptures, if only people would read the Buddhist scriptures
 
Michael said:
I guess I don't know the Buddhist meaning of enlightenment.
I know people who do the practice and can achieve a feeling of nothingness and be "one with the universe" and they have no religous beleif and their idea of enlightenment is probably something similar to my own. A personal understanding of the human condition.


There is a part of the brain that recognizes self from non self. Disrupt the blood flow, or damage, to that area and a person will feel like they are one with the universe. dehydration and lack of sugars can probably do something to that area of the brain to cause a feeling of oneness. AKA not distinguish self from non self.
Click to expand...
The meaning of Buddhist enlightenment is usually described as having three features or elements. one of which you have already described.

1. Sense of immortality, in which the physical body is felt to be subjective to consciousness, as opposed to the other way around.

2. Sense of universality, in which the entire physical world is felt to be arising within consciousness. As if one's sense of self were spread out to pervade all of perceived space.

3. Silencing of all unwillful background mentalization. All the mental noise including night dreams that arise in consciousness comes to an end. Its not that one becomes incapable of thinking, but that thoughts and emotions do not arise seeming by themselves.

If you try real hard you'll find that you cannot will yourself to stop all the images, conversation and music pouring through your mind constantly. In enlightenment all of this activity settles into a profound peace and tranquility...like mud settling out of turbulent water.

Sometimes people can get a glimpse of these features by using psychedelic drugs, but a closer inspection reveals they are far from enlightenment. Much like seeing light through a crack in a door, as compared to opening the door and stepping into a different world.
 
Achieving this is a goal of mine.
paradoxically, and/or unfortunately, making it a goal seems to put it ever further from my reach!
 
Michael said:
Achieving this is a goal of mine.
paradoxically, and/or unfortunately, making it a goal seems to put it ever further from my reach!
Click to expand...

No it doesn't, Gautama Buddha talks about this in the pali canons (if only people would read this for once), Venerable Ananda gives an example of how you can have the desire to go the park, and upon reaching the park the desire is ended, but Gautama Buddha himself says it doesn't matter if you have the desire or not, it matters more on right speech, right view, etc.....its really great to read the pali canons if you are at all interested in Therveda Buddhism or Traditional Buddhism, I suggest http://www.accesstoinsight.org

The specific Suttas (Sutras):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn51/sn51.015.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.126.than.html

Gautama Buddha interestingly says:
"Suppose a man in need of fire, looking for fire, wandering in search of fire, would take a fire stick and rub it into a wet, sappy piece of wood. If he were to take a fire stick and rub it into a wet, sappy piece of wood even when having made a wish [for results]... having made no wish... both having made a wish and having made no wish... neither having made a wish nor having made no wish, he would be incapable of obtaining results. Why is that? Because it is an inappropriate way of obtaining results

In the same way, any priests or contemplatives endowed with wrong view, wrong resolve, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, & wrong concentration: If they follow the holy life even when having made a wish [for results]... having made no wish... both having made a wish and having made no wish... neither having made a wish nor having made no wish, they are incapable of obtaining results. Why is that? Because it is an inappropriate way of obtaining results.

But as for any priests or contemplatives endowed with right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, & right concentration: If they follow the holy life even when having made a wish, they are capable of obtaining results. If they follow the holy life even when having made no wish, they are capable of obtaining results. If they follow the holy life even when both having made a wish and having made no wish, they are capable of obtaining results. If they follow the holy life even when neither having made a wish nor having made no wish, they are capable of obtaining results. Why is that? Because it is an appropriate way of obtaining results.

Suppose a man in need of oil, looking for oil, wandering in search of oil, would pile sesame seeds in a tub and press them, sprinkling them again & again with water. If he were to pile sesame seeds in a tub and press them, sprinkling them again & again with water, even when having made a wish [for results]... having made no wish... both having made a wish and having made no wish... neither having made a wish nor having made no wish, he would be capable of obtaining results. Why is that? Because it is an appropriate way of obtaining results" (Bhumija Sutta)
 
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