Marriage

[alexb123]

Why is it that Marriage is not a Christian event? The Bible does not say we must get married, does it? Yet the Church looks down on un-married relationships, why?

Also where do the origins of the modern Christian wedding come from? Who made them up?

 

[Light]

Why is it that Marriage is not a Christian event? The Bible does not say we must get married, does it? Yet the Church looks down on un-married relationships, why?

Also where do the origins of the modern Christian wedding come from? Who made them up?

Who says it's not a Christain (and every other religion) event? From your next two questions, it's pretty clear you haven't studied your Bible very much. I suggest you check it again.

As to the last question, it's simply a series of traditions that have accumulated over time. Hopefully, you also realize that there's a lot of different varieties as well.

 

[c20H25N3o]

I have been with my partner for 10 years. We have never had the money or the family structure/support to make a wedding happen. Our relationship however is on a very firm footing and no piece of paper is going to make a difference to that. I would love my partner to have her big day but we must be pragmatic. Our children's needs come before our desire to have a big party. I would be suprised if any member of any clergy could find fault in our attitude towards eachother and condemn it as unholy or 'fornication'?

Our marraige is defined by our faithful love toward one another.

peace

c20

 

[Light]

I would be suprised if any member of any clergy could find fault in our attitude towards eachother and condemn it as unholy or 'fornication'?

I understand perfectly what you're saying but you need to seriously rethink that statement. Unfortunately, there are thousands of them that would view it that way.

 

[alexb123]

Who says it's not a Christain (and every other religion) event? From your next two questions, it's pretty clear you haven't studied your Bible very much. I suggest you check it again.

As to the last question, it's simply a series of traditions that have accumulated over time. Hopefully, you also realize that there's a lot of different varieties as well.

Where is your evidence? Please quote! If I am wrong I am keen to learn.

 

[cosmictraveler]

"When a man steals your wife there is no better revenge than to let him keep her."
Sacha Guitry.

"There is one thing I would break up over and that is if she caught me with another woman. I wouldn't stand for that."
Steve Martin.

"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife."
Groucho Marx

"In married life three is company and two none."
Oscar Wilde

"It was a perfect marriage. She didn't want to and he couldn't."
Spike Milligan

"My advice to you is get married: if you find a good wife you'll be happy; if not, you'll become a philosopher."
Socrates.

"The General was essentially a man of peace, except of course in his domestic affairs."
Oscar Wilde


"Love is temporary insanity curable by marriage."
Ambrose Bierce

"I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury."
Groucho Marx

"My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. Every now and then she stops to breathe."
Jimmy Durante.

 

[c20H25N3o]

I understand perfectly what you're saying but you need to seriously rethink that statement. Unfortunately, there are thousands of them that would view it that way.

all I should have done was add '... and be justified.'

to

'I would be suprised if any member of any clergy could find fault in our attitude towards eachother and condemn it as unholy or 'fornication'?

But I agree, I am sure there are many who would take a holier than thou stance.

peace

c20

 

[charles cure]

I have been with my partner for 10 years. We have never had the money or the family structure/support to make a wedding happen. Our relationship however is on a very firm footing and no piece of paper is going to make a difference to that. I would love my partner to have her big day but we must be pragmatic. Our children's needs come before our desire to have a big party. I would be suprised if any member of any clergy could find fault in our attitude towards eachother and condemn it as unholy or 'fornication'?

Our marraige is defined by our faithful love toward one another.

peace

c20

ah, but this is never what marriage has really been about until recently (like within the last 150 years). Prior to that marriage had little or nothing to do with love and people being happy in their relationships. It was, instead viewed as a means of upward mobility for some lower class families looking to improve their station, and a source of income for some wealthier families. Lower class families would marry their daughter off to the son of a somewhat well-to-do family in the upper or middle class, and through that union, they would receive some form of "trickle-down prestige" by association. In turn, the more well off family would receive the girl's dowry, which was often a very valuable contribution of crops and livestock or some other combination of goods and money. this would increase the riches of the better-off family, which was important, because these kind of marriages almost never took place between the poor and members of the aristocracy, but instead between members of the lower class and the middle class or merchant class, in which case, a large dowry could mean the difference between that family being simply comfortable and actually rich. at the time the bible was concocted, marriage had a structure similar to this. the reason marriage is enshrined in such a way by the christian church is because if it wasnt supported as a required part of life and a venerated social institution, the class system would have been thrown into chaos. Imagine that God or Jesus had nothing to say on the subject of marriage and never supported it, or even if they condemned it outright in favor of loving relationships where the people committed to each other without need for the approval of the church? it would have been disasterous. people would have been able to marry anyone they wanted, dowry or no dowry. It would have allowed for young men and women to make decisions for themselves about the kind of lives they wanted to have, independent of any consideration for what would improve the standing of their family in society. even worse, people would be open to question whether marriage ever need occur in the first place, and people would just go about and have relationships with anyone they choose for any amount of time. in addition to that, a noncommital biblical stance on the subject of marriage would rob the church of two facets of its control over the lives of its subjects. 1. it would no longer be able to make money from the marriages, for there was then and has always been a fee to get married. and 2. it would lose its ability to manipulate peoples guilt over "unholy fonication" or masturbation, or adultery, or sexual permissiveness in a general way, which would close them off from an entire realm of fear that could be used to control the social behavior of their flock.
in short, marriage was a good deal for the church back then, and although the same reasons dont exist for it today, the ridiculous beliefs of christianity still do, and therefore marriage has remained enshrined in western society as a secular as well as religious sacrament.

so i guess im surprised that you think it would matter to a priest if you have a loving and supportive relationship at all. youre still chest deep in sin my friend, as long as youre christian theres no escape but penance.

 

[alexb123]

Charles Thanks for adding this view of Marriage as a form of income and control on the part of the church. You seem to know the subject well. But are you talking about the Church or the Bible? Is Marriage another Christmas? By this I mean the Bible does not ask for it or preach it but it has become part of the Christian Tradition?

 

[alexb123]

I have been with my partner for 10 years. We have never had the money or the family structure/support to make a wedding happen. Our relationship however is on a very firm footing and no piece of paper is going to make a difference to that. I would love my partner to have her big day but we must be pragmatic. Our children's needs come before our desire to have a big party. I would be suprised if any member of any clergy could find fault in our attitude towards eachother and condemn it as unholy or 'fornication'?

Our marraige is defined by our faithful love toward one another.

peace

c20

I am in the exact same position as you but without the children. And I would not change things for the world. If it ain't broke don't try to fix it

 

[charles cure]

Charles Thanks for adding this view of Marriage as a form of income and control on the part of the church. You seem to know the subject well. But are you talking about the Church or the Bible? Is Marriage another Christmas? By this I mean the Bible does not ask for it or preach it but it has become part of the Christian Tradition?

whats important about how marriage is depicted by the bible isnt that it is portrayed as a specifically Christian rite, its that the church does not condemn marriage. the ritual of marriage preexisted Christianity, and i would argue that it was such an ingrained part of the social order of the time, that for the bible to make much comment about it in either a negative or positive way would have been ruffling feathers.

therefore what early christianity sought to do was gradually absorb the ritual and add to it their own type of religious meaning. Think of it, marriage is not specifically condemned or supported in the bible, but one of the first miracles performed by jesus takes place at a wedding, therefore giving meaning to the event and specifically setting up an instance where the bible could have come out against marriage if they wanted to. but instead, what they chose to do was make it the backdrop for the occurence of a miracle. thats a nice indirect way of supporting it and saying "hey look weddings have always had a specifically christian kind of significance because of this".

the early church took it upon itself to establish marriage as a sacrament, which is sort of another way of saying it is a crucial step on the path toward communication and reconciliation with God. in addition to this, by the church absorbing the ritual of marriage and infusing the ceremony itself with its own specific flourishes, they make christian marriage into a ceremony where the two people to be wed devote themselves to God in front of a large crowd of their family, friends, and other important people. this serves to reinforce peoples commitment and submission to the authority of the church and its ability to create binding social arangements as much as it reinforces their commitment to each other.

I think what im getting at here is that, much like christmas, although marriage is not specifically called for in the bible, it exists as the result of the development of church dogma, for whatever reason. there are many events that christians celebrate that are not specifically mandated by the bible as celebrated events. whats important is that, if you are catholic, then you must trust in which events the church has determined to be important through its interpretation of the bible, since you are not meant to understand it yourself. and if you are a protestant, then youre beliefs are founded on Catholic dogma and dependent on it up until about the 1590's, so since marriage was already well established by then, it doesnt make much difference whether the bible specifically celebrates it or not. all that matters is that it does not forbid it, tradition fills in the rest of the gaps.

in addition to that i would like to say that the bible clearly in some ways speaks on behalf of marriage. especially since one of the ten commandments involves an implied rule against committing adultery. if god didnt think marriage was ok, why would adultery ever be forbidden to begin with?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: I wanted to add to cosmictraveler's post:

Q: What is the difference between a woman who is easy and a good woman?

A: The easy woman will give you a good time and go on her merry way. A good woman will give you a good time, but you'll never hear the end of it.


Q: What is child support?

A: The screwing you get for the screwing you got.

 

[charles cure]

*************
M*W: I wanted to add to cosmictraveler's post:

Q: What is the difference between a woman who is easy and a good woman?

A: The easy woman will give you a good time and go on her merry way. A good woman will give you a good time, but you'll never hear the end of it.


Q: What is child support?

A: The screwing you get for the screwing you got.

thats pretty funny.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

4th commandment: Honor thy father and thy mother.

Though this commandment pertains to authority in general (authority of parents, authority of religious teachers, authority of government, authority of schoolteachers/master, etc...), this commandment implies a support to marriage.

6th commandment: Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Again, though this commandment pertains to sexuals sins in general (this isn't to say that sex is sinful, just that there are sins of a sexual nature) it implies a support to marriage.

Genesis, God created complementary sexes in nature, and created man and woman as complementary partners. God told them to be fruitful and multiply. This is the simple basis for marriage.

In the OT, Abraham, Solomon, and others were polygamous, each for different reasons. However, Adam, and his sons, as well as Noah, and others, were monogamous. Solomon's problems, and the fall of his kingdom due to his many wives (built them temples to their gods, because they were wives from other nations, whom he married for political reasons. as well there was much fighting between his many sons after his death).

Judaism taught monogamy, based on the complementariety of the sexes, and as a stable base for the raising of children. Early Christians were Jewish, and continued this tradition. "Christ came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it."

Considered both a moral law and a natural law both in Judaism and Christianity.