Due to the apparent inaccuracies in your accounts of Jesus I want to make it very clear that it is a fictional account...
http://www.loveromances.com/keeperoftheflame_kari.html
http://www.loveromances.com/keeperoftheflame_kari.html
M*w
- Thread starter okinrus
- Start date
okinrus
Since you are young and obviously not well-read, who are you to contradict me? You perpetuate the lies YOU believe. This is a scientific forum discussing a ride range of belief systems. Since you haven't written anything intelligent or novel on this site, I would suggest you sign-up on a Xian forum and communicate with those small minds who share your beliefs.
Since you are young and obviously not well-read, who are you to contradict me? You perpetuate the lies YOU believe. This is a scientific forum discussing a ride range of belief systems. Since you haven't written anything intelligent or novel on this site, I would suggest you sign-up on a Xian forum and communicate with those small minds who share your beliefs.
Siddhartha
Registered Senior Member
Again Circe has a point, though okinrus, I'd say to you that your main "fault" (as far as an atheist might see it) is that you often present your arguments in the form: A is true, therefore there can't be any doubt about B, without first establishing the truth of A.
But all theists argue that A is true first because that has been established on faith. This is the nature of any debate with theism.
But I admire Okinrus's patience, temperament, and tenacity, and perhaps courage for debating where he is not in an overwhelming majority.
But I am reminded of -
Be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak and wrong. Sometime in your life, you will have been all of these.
But I admire Okinrus's patience, temperament, and tenacity, and perhaps courage for debating where he is not in an overwhelming majority.
But I am reminded of -
Be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak and wrong. Sometime in your life, you will have been all of these.
I think that it is interesting to note that if a young woman today claims (and many have) to have conceived a child without a father, we don't jump the gun and call it an immaculate conception. Instead, we get her the counseling she needs and, hopefully, society will accept that she made some bad decisions about contraception or perhaps was put through a bad situation like non-consensual sex.
The way I see it, if the legend of Jesus is indeed based upon fact, it most likely was a woman who was faced with similar circumstances. Rather than face the public humiliation, perhaps even death by stoning, she and her husband chose rely on an old testiment prophecy... perhaps even a 'self-fullfilling' one if there is any legitimacy to the accounts of Jesus.
There was not way to test paternity at the time of his birth, but I suspect if we could go back and watch the event through a time machine, we'd see a young Mary being raped by a Roman soldier or some other male figure. That is, assuming that the myth is based in fact, which it may or may not be.
The way I see it, if the legend of Jesus is indeed based upon fact, it most likely was a woman who was faced with similar circumstances. Rather than face the public humiliation, perhaps even death by stoning, she and her husband chose rely on an old testiment prophecy... perhaps even a 'self-fullfilling' one if there is any legitimacy to the accounts of Jesus.
There was not way to test paternity at the time of his birth, but I suspect if we could go back and watch the event through a time machine, we'd see a young Mary being raped by a Roman soldier or some other male figure. That is, assuming that the myth is based in fact, which it may or may not be.
Contradiction???
I don't mind being contradicted by anyone who has more knowledge than I. I have a thirst for knowledge. That's why I joined this forum. I want to be intellectually stimulated. As for okinrus contradicting me, he's young and brainwashed. The extent of his knowledge is Biblical. He replies with Bible quotes. I've read the Bible. I professed Xianity. I've visited the Vatican. I've met Pope Paul II. I was in his first audience. I was a staunch believer until I found the truth, and the truth set me free. So, please feel free to contradict me! There is just too much knowledge out there that is readily available for anyone to research if they have a desire to. My problem with okinrus is that his desire is limited to one book that has many errors in truth. The more one researches Xianity the more one understands Jesus and what he was trying to teach, and they are more able to see Jesus' history and circumstance with clearer vision. okinrus is stuck on a very incorrect version of what was written some 2000 years ago. Those writers never walked in Jesus' presence. The NT was written long after Jesus was gone, primarily by Paul, who was hated severely by Jesus' family. But contradict me. I want to learn from you. I just believe I have acquired knowledge beyond that of okinrus. Therefore, I am someone whom okinrus should learn from and not contradict.
The 'truth' is...
The truth is not what was written in the Bible. I have been fortunate to travel far and wide. It was not my audience with Pope Paul II that enlightened me. Far from it. I felt nothing spiritual in Vatican City. I saw greedy people and prostitutes loitering outside of St. Peter's. The art was fabulous, however. I have nothing agains PPII, he was younger then and so was I. Still impressionable as a devout Catholic wanting to be fulfilled in my faith.
I've learned that the truths I've come to believe are the farthest thing from Xianity. I believe a great multitude of lies have been harbored by the Xian Church and one-day we will all know the truth. We don't need salvation from another person. We're here--that's our salvation--to learn what we missed when we were here before. To atone for our sins. To forgive everyone for hurting us. Most of all, to forgive ourselves. Forgiveness is our true salvation. It has always been within us. When we recognize how powerful forgiveness is, we have found the secret to eternal life. It is a tremendous cleansing for the soul.
These are my truths.
The truth is not what was written in the Bible. I have been fortunate to travel far and wide. It was not my audience with Pope Paul II that enlightened me. Far from it. I felt nothing spiritual in Vatican City. I saw greedy people and prostitutes loitering outside of St. Peter's. The art was fabulous, however. I have nothing agains PPII, he was younger then and so was I. Still impressionable as a devout Catholic wanting to be fulfilled in my faith.
I've learned that the truths I've come to believe are the farthest thing from Xianity. I believe a great multitude of lies have been harbored by the Xian Church and one-day we will all know the truth. We don't need salvation from another person. We're here--that's our salvation--to learn what we missed when we were here before. To atone for our sins. To forgive everyone for hurting us. Most of all, to forgive ourselves. Forgiveness is our true salvation. It has always been within us. When we recognize how powerful forgiveness is, we have found the secret to eternal life. It is a tremendous cleansing for the soul.
These are my truths.
do you then know if it is the catholic church which habours a massive storage of written texts benath a famous church of theirs. i do not remember where i heard this from but i'm pretty sure their is a cache of historical documents that discredit jesus or something to that effect that has been sucked up and put in storage for no-one to see- to protect their faith. for the life of me i can't remember where or who i heard it from and i don't know whether or not this is just a white lie someone told me.
M*W, I would not be speaking with you if I thought that you could compromise my faith in anyway. Unless if you can present primary sources then I could at least learn something, but I'm certainly not going to take your word for anything.
Brainwashed?
If I want to quote Chaucer to Gray you won't have a problem, but when it's the bible, it's wrong?
Re: The 'truth' is...
What makes those "truths" any more or less valid than other people's "truths?"
What makes those "truths" any more or less valid than other people's "truths?"