Teg,
I found your response somewhat confusing. I wasn’t offering debate but just the facts surrounding atheism and Secular Humanism. There should have been nothing controversial in my statements. So I’m not sure what your intention is on this.
Secular humanists are also atheists but go further and include positive doctrines. E.g. that humans need to take responsibility for their actions and are ultimately in control of their environment and ultimate fate.
The problem is that those rules should be interchangable with something we should all have: common sense.
That is true. Are you implying that secular humanism is not based on common sense and rational thinking? And if so then what are your objections?
Although I must point out that so-called common sense isn’t very common and what many feel is common-sense is more often quite erroneous.
Remember that an atheist could be the worst serial killer imaginable or might be someone with the highest sense of morality imaginable.
It is more likely that the serial killer is a Christian.
I think you missed the point. Atheists come from all walks of life and there is no system of beliefs, doctrines, dogma, moral code, set of ethics, etc, that link all atheists together. They can be good or bad people, it really doesn’t matter. The only thing atheists have in common is that they share a disbelief in the existence of gods; it is not possible to make any further claims about atheists that have any accuracy.
I have proof that moral doctrine is often empty.
I don’t know what you mean by that. Perhaps you should have shown your proof.
The concept of morality is not difficult it is just a mechnaism to determine what is good and what is bad. The issue comes from the question of good and bad for who? In religious morality like Christianity the morality is based the needs of an authoritarian god. The rules are not based on what is good for man nor are they based on practicality or rational design. The rules come from a religious text and are intended to be followed blindly. Or IOW theistic morality is based on an imaginary set of rules defined by an imaginary god. This is an extremely poor basis on which to model human behavior
A moraility based on the needs of man are quite different and represent guidelines that help with survival. Humanistic morality assumes that anything that supports life is good and anything that detracts from life is bad. Usage of these simple guidelines enables sets of rules that directly benefit mankind.
We must instead be guided by our internal moral and ethical compass. Bah, rules are for those Christian folk.
Well Ok and that is easy for the major items, like killing and lying, but many aspects of morality are not so clear cut and sets of guidelines and rules are usually considered valuable. Note that these would be phrased in a way that the value is clear, for example –
To kill someone is morally bad since it removes the basic right of freedom from an individual to enjoy life. Contrast that with a theist rule –
You shall not kill because God says so.
I hope you see the basic difference between the tyrannical authoritarian approach adopted by religions like Christianity and the practical style adopted by a more rational approach such as Humanism.
Laws are the only way of deterence. They often have trouble doing so. I think we must accept that for whatever reason some have the capacity to do wrong.
Laws are fine if there is clear and well understood intention behind them. I don’t think laws should be seen as a deterrent but more in the form that there is a disadvantage to not obeying the law – e.g. speeding in a car could result in injury to yourself or others. Laws should never be obeyed because a so-called higher authority ordered it.
But know that as atheists you have no set of negative outcomes to enforce your system of morality. I can't imagine that your rules would accomplish anything more than some slight easing of your conscience. They are by definition superfluous.
I don’t know what you mean here. Atheists have no doctrines or set of ethics, or a system of morality, or sets of rules. Atheism isn’t about establishing such things, and isn’t any type of belief or morality system, so your statements here are meaningless.
Atheism is only about a disbelief in the existence of gods. How atheists then choose to run their lives or what sets of rules they wish to follow is entirely up to them as individuals.
Hope that helps.
Cris
