Love thy neighbour and hate you family (NT)

[mustafhakofi]

love your enemies over you father and mother.

Luke 14:26 If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 5:43-44You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

this is a little perplexing, it would be nice to get some feedback.

 

[anonymous2]

The argument I've read is that "hate" (at least in the context of following Jesus) really meant "love less", so one would have to love his parents less than Jesus. Odd way of saying so, in my opinion. Then again, Jesus did seem to be into using hyperbole. I would think a loving God would want to make his sayings totally clear though, and not use such figures of speech which could be misconstrued (even dangerously misconstrued). Look at what's said about Origen. He supposedly made himself a eunuch for the "kingdom of God".. after all, "if your right hand offend thee, cut it off".. and I guess, by extension, if your private region offend thee, ....

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

So, apparently, Jesus spoke in parables, so that some people might not understand what he was saying. That sounds kind of elitist to me.

 

[sol13]

My reading of this which is not necessarily Christian is that Jesus was teaching a form of Buddhist non-attachment. Hate is probably too strong a term but to be a disciple of Jesus/Buddha one must renounce all earthly attachments which of course means those attachments which are emotionally binding. One must renounce all family ties if one sincerely wishes to become a Buddha/disciple of Jesus. Loving one enemies is also denying those deep set emotions which seem to come naturally. Who does not hate his enemy?
These are difficult, some would say impossible targets but far better to aim for the impossible than to accept that which comes too easily to so many religions i.e. adherence to a fixed set of rules which favours only those who believe in the same god.

 

[okinrus]

Aramaic has a word for "hate" that also means put aside. Since Jesus spoke Aramaic, it's possible that translation of the word into "hate" was misjudged.

 

[Adstar]

Luke 14

25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.' 31Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

We must be prepared to give up everything to follow Jesus. This is the message that Jesus was telling them. If one loves His parent more than God then they will stay with the faith of their parents. (or no faith)

After Jesus had ascended into heaven many Jews came to believe in Jesus as Messiah. Many families where divided by this. A mother would believe in Jesus and her daughter would not believe. A son would accept Jesus but His dad would not. So they where divided. In the first great persecution of the followers of Jesus many fathers betrayed their sons and ones enemies where in their own family. Jesus said it more clearly in Matthew 10:


Matthew 10

32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35For I have come to "set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; 36and "a man's enemies will be those of his own household.' 37He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

I have lived this myself. My parents do not hold my faith and because of that i am divided from them.

I still care for the salvation of my parents but their decision to accept Jesus or not is exactly that...THEIRS. We must reach out with the love of the Messiah to the lost but we must never compromise our faith to fit into their wishes.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[robtex]

love your enemies over you father and mother.

Luke 14:26 If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 5:43-44You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

this is a little perplexing, it would be nice to get some feedback.

Mustafhakofi you can play the qoute game if you want but nobody is gonna be any smarter cause of it. Taking a couple of phrases out the Bible makes and asking about its context makes about as much sense a couple sentences out of any book and asking about its context.

Read (cause I long forgot the points they made) the chaper of Luke and look for theme..than get back to us.......

If you feel the need go to Matthew and do the same.....

 

[mis-t-highs]

adstar:surely you dont believe thats a good thing.
in all seriousness, your family should always come first.

is there a theme to the bible, wow I did not know that.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

Aramaic has a word for "hate" that also means put aside. Since Jesus spoke Aramaic, it's possible that translation of the word into "hate" was misjudged.

I would just like to add to this, since it is on the right track. Hate, as we understand it, holds a connotation of loathing, extreme dislike. However, that is not it's original meaning, and, as okinrus has pointed out, was not the intended meaning of the term in the original language of the Bible. Another rendering of "hate" here is to "turn one's back on" or, as okinrus has pointed out, "to set aside." The context of this passage is meant to indicate that if your family is holding you back from following Christ, then to put them out of your life (at least until they can come to grips with your beliefs). It does not mean, revile, and laothe your mother and father, or family. It simply means that you should not let them keep you from Him.

Again, for the second passage, to hate one's enemies would simply be to put them out of your life. Avoid them, don't do them any kind of favors or service. The love that Christ is speaking of here is not an emotional kind. It is, in the Greek, Agape, or charity. It means to put them in your life. Make them part of your life by doing whatever you can FOR them, doing them acts of service whenever possible. Why? because this will destroy the enmity that they hold for you. If will foster friendship, and ward against fighting, war, and death (of both the physical kind and of the spiritual kind).

 

[fahrenheit 451]

so do we need to redefine the word hate.

Now they are saying that "hate" actually means "love less"or "put aside". However when I checked out Strong's concordance as recommended by Christians, I found that the original Greek used the word "miseo" which is defined as "hate". I also checked other verses and "miseo" pops up again and again referring to hate.

I refer to:

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Luk 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Jhn 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.

Jhn 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

1Jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

All these verses have "miseo" for the English word hate. Try substituting "love less" for hate in these verses. And why does "miseo" only mean "love less" in Luke 14:26?

I got the concordances from this site:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html

If anyone wants to check my findings, go ahead.

credit to dmarker

 

[Adstar]

adstar:surely you dont believe thats a good thing.
in all seriousness, your family should always come first.

is there a theme to the bible, wow I did not know that.

God comes first. Over my nation, over my people, over any government, over any culture, over any religion, over my life, over my mother, over my father.

If any of these things goes against God then they must be forsaken.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[§outh§tar]

Well, as you must all know by now, the Bible is FULL and teeming with blessed family values such as raping virgins and massacring suckling babes. TEACH your kids to obey these valid doctrines or face the eternal consequence of hell fire!

 

[Tiassa]

in all seriousness, your family should always come first.

Why?

Don't get me wrong, I hold it as a principle. But I can't really explain the reason. It's just "one of those things you do, you know?" And that's not really an answer.

But "family" is actually an inefficient means of social organization, governed by sentiment and fancy and superstition.

What is a father or mother in the kingdom of God will be about as irrelevant as a doctor.

 

[Adstar]

What is a father or mother in the kingdom of God will be about as irrelevant as a doctor.

Your right. There will be no marrage no mother, father, brother, or sister.

All praise The Ancient of Days

 

[mustafhakofi]

tiassa:my parents are sentient corporeal beings, of whom, I can touch, see, hear, and smell. and above all I love and they love me. wether I am happy or sad I alway have my family. sadly their are people, who have no familys. and I hope they find solace in whom ever and what ever they meet and do. if your so called kingdom of god is how you and adstar believe it to be then, I am glad I have no belief, it's not some where for happiness, it would be a place of cruelity

 

[Jenyar]

But what we have here is another Hebrew problem. Biblical Hebrew lacks the necessary language to exactly define the comparative sense, i.e., 'more than' or 'less than'. Instead it tends to express two things which may be comparatively of different degree like 'first' and 'second' as extremes such as 'first' and 'last'. In this way love and hate whilst appearing as opposites may in fact be related but lesser terms such as 'love more' and 'love less'.

The Jewish midrash on Exodus describes God as hating the angels, and not just the fallen ones. It does not mean he dislikes Michael and Gabriel! It means that he chooses to give man the Torah, rather than the angels:
"By three names is this mount known: The mountain of God, Mount Horeb and Mount Sinai. . . . Why The mountain of God? (Exodus 18:5). Because it was there that God manifested His Godhead. And Sinai? Because [it was on that mount] that God showed that He hates the angels and loves mankind." (Exodus Rabbah 51.8, Soncino edition)​

- Biblical Hebrew and its New Testament application. Hebrew idioms buried in overly literal Greek. 'Hate your parents', Matthew 10:37