if you weren't so lazy in explaining it you would have clarified everything by now.
Lorentz Force Paradox
- Thread starter eram
- Start date
if you weren't so lazy in explaining it you would have clarified everything by now.
I already wrote quite a lot of math for you. It is time you made some effort, look up the information. It is impertinent of you to call me lazy.
I dont think you wrote much math. And rpenner writes way more too. But thats just my opinion. You're entitled to yours.
Also you deal insults with every post, so I dont see why you cant take one.
I wrote exactly the amount that answers the question. Calling you lazy is not an insult, it is a statement of fact, you expect everything to be done for you. Doesn't work this way.
Just enough to answer your imagined "paradox".
The punishment for your smugness is that you'll never learn.
if you say so.
But isn't that what you've always been doing?
Yes, that's my punishment, but due to your smugness.
It is only you who is talking about "freely" moving electrons.
Again, the only question here is whether you can explain Ampère's force law according to relativity. Yes, no?
Back in post #68 you raised the issue...
The only case where an electron can achieve a linear velocity as described, is where it is moving freely..., unaffected by any material or plasma it may be moving through, or where its motion is not confined and determined by an electromagnetic field.
Even in particle accelerators the magnetic fields of the electrons, in a particle beam, do not over come their mutual repulsion.
I am unsure that what you are describing is actually entirely or exclusively an artifact of the electron's motion alone. How electrons move through a wire or plasma is a complex process. And in the case of the wire, the material itself plays a significant role in the resulting magnetic field. IOW The magnetic field created when a current flows through a conductor is a property of the conductor as much as it is the electron.
As I mentioned earlier, all of your examples involved electrons that are moving through some material, wire, plasma or gas.., or where the motion of the electron is being controlled and influenced by a magnetic field.
It is a pretty big jump from there, to an assumption that the velocity of an isolated electron, which is not moving through some conductive material, would develope a magnetic field greater than its inherent repulsion for other electrons.
I am talking about Ampère's force law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampère's_force_law
This is setup which underlies definition of ampere, SI unit of current. I told you how the problem is posed in text books so you can solve it for point charges, but you are free to use your own understanding if you believe to know better. The question is, can you calculate magnetic force according to relativity and still get correct result? What equations would you use?
I am talking about Ampère's force law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampère's_force_law
This is setup which underlies definition of ampere, SI unit of current. I told you how the problem is posed in text books so you can solve it for point charges, but you are free to use your own understanding if you believe to know better. The question is, can you calculate magnetic force according to relativity and still get correct result? What equations would you use?
As I think I also mentioned in an earlier post, you know when I used the word likely... A freely moving electron being a charged particle could be thought of as being subject to Lorentz force.., but that would also be getting into the realm of QED, or more specifically SED.
There has been a great deal of theoretical work on the interaction of charged particles with the ZPF. Both as it might relate to inertia and even gravity. A few of a dozen or so papers I have read on the subject are,
Vacuum Quantum Fluctuations in Curved Space and the Theory of Gravitation, Sakharov (1967)
The Energetic Vacuum: Implications For Energy Research, Puthoff (1988)
Inertia as a zero-point-field Lorentz force, Hairsh (1994)
But much of the math is beyond my ability to do much more than struggle my way through. I am not qualified to do more than point out that they are looking at the motion of changed particles through the ZPF, which does involve Lorentz forces.., in what appears to me to be linearly associated with the acceleration of those particles. An electron being a charged particle would seem to be subject to the same theoretical conditions.
I am not qualified in either QED or SED. I really don't get or understand most of what is being presented in the few papers dealing with gravity I have read. The papers discussing inertia seem more straight forward. I don't see any run away magnetic fields being suggested in any of what I have read and can understand.
This is why I challenged the idea when you presented it. If you are talking relativistic electrons, they cannot be moving through either a wire or a plasma... They would have to be moving freely through "empty" space..., and thus interacting only with space or the ZPF.
This is getting way off topic for the thread. I just believe you were attempting to project the motion of electrons beyond the conditions supported by the references you cited.
And as I also mentioned, it would seem to me that if a magnetic field associated with an electron with a relativistic velocity would over come the electron's inherent charge related repulsive force, relative to other electrons, matter could not exist.
Calculating magnetic force between two current-carrying wires is basic Electromagnetism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampère's_force_law
You were simply supposed to use "Relativistic form of the Lorentz force" to solve it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force#Relativistic_form_of_the_Lorentz_force