Lilith or Eve? Female equality or not?

Greatest I am

Greatest I am

Valued Senior Member
Lilith or Eve? Female equality or not?

Who was the first woman Lilith or Eve?

Jews recognize Lilith yet Christians never mention her and assume, thanks to Christianity blaming Eve for the fall, that women must be submissive to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvKztNw5Mbc

At present, most political and religious institutions do not give women equality.

We do give lip service to equality under the law but that seems to be the extent of what males will allow women. In the distant past, male strength was often necessary for the survival of the family. Today, that condition no longer exists.

Are women meant to be submissive to men forever or will men allow women to be equal to men at some point in time?

Regards
DL

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v1047857CXRNxJHk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uptU-WBE1kQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related
 
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At present, most political and religious institutions do not give women equality.

We do give lip service to equality under the law but that seems to be the extent of what males will allow women. In the distant past, male strength was often necessary for the survival of the family. Today, that condition no longer exists.

Are women meant to be submissive to men forever or will men allow women to be equal to men at some point in time?



There can't be equality and there should not be equality in our present time

Female gets banana during menstrual cycle and she gets banana a menopause . She can have equality after the age of 65 or slightly earlier .
 
arauca said:
At present, most political and religious institutions do not give women equality.

We do give lip service to equality under the law but that seems to be the extent of what males will allow women. In the distant past, male strength was often necessary for the survival of the family. Today, that condition no longer exists.

Are women meant to be submissive to men forever or will men allow women to be equal to men at some point in time?



There can't be equality and there should not be equality in our present time

Female gets banana during menstrual cycle and she gets banana a menopause . She can have equality after the age of 65 or slightly earlier .
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Thanks for showing your lack of understanding of what fundamental justice is.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
I have.

I await your answer.
Do not be a coward. Let's hear it.
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Ad hominem and inflamatory troll baiting.

Thus I have serious doubts that you are seeking anything other than a trolling opportunity to affirm your own confirmation bias. You have yet to demonstrate that you can even objectively examine or rebut a logical argument, and I have no doubt that this trend will continue here. For example, where is Lilith described as the first woman? Various demons, such as succubi, are not human. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1513/whats-the-story-on-lilith-adams-first-wife


But if anyone else is actually interested in engaging in discussion...

Women are generally not as aggressively ambitious in the same arenas as men.

"I was curious and began interviewing women. The women I interviewed hated the word ambition when applied to their own lives. For these women ambition necessarily implied egotism, selfishness, self-aggrandizement, or the manipulative use of others for one’s own ends. These women’s denial of their own ambitiousness was particularly striking in contrast to the men I interviewed, who assumed that ambition was a necessary and desirable part of their lives. Perhaps even more surprising, the very women who deplored ambition in reference to their own lives freely admitted to admiring it in men." http://www.womensmedia.com/balance/92-ambition-in-women.html ​
 
Lilith is described as a woman who somehow became a succubus later in the link you provided.
Did you read it?

As to aggression.

Are you saying that woman, because she lacks the agression that men have, should be denied equality by men?

Is a non-aggrecive man then not equal to other men either?

Are men then not aware that equality is the basis of law and morality?

Are you?

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Lilith is described as a woman who somehow became a succubus later in the link you provided.
Did you read it?
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If you read it then your comprehension was seriously lacking, as it provided the chronological evolution of the story with the only version claiming Lilith as the "first woman" being the very last, an amalgam of three quite different legends around a thousand years after the first.

"OK, so around a thousand years later (give or take a few centuries), the Alphabet of Ben Sira creates the story we started with, tying together all three legends, merging (1) Lilith the child-slaying night-demon story with (2) Penzai the lilith [type of demon] who seduces Adam with (3) the [unnamed] "prior first woman" story." http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1513/whats-the-story-on-lilith-adams-first-wife​

Go read that link again. Only this time try to read the whole thing instead of stopping the moment you think your bias has been affirmed.

As to aggression.

Are you saying that woman, because she lacks the agression that men have, should be denied equality by men?
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Why, are you recanting your assertion that freedoms can only be taken? If not, then equality is not something to be given by men, but can only be taken by women, and thus have nothing to do with men.

Is a non-aggrecive man then not equal to other men either?
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Once again, by your own assertion, a man who does not assert his own freedom will not be granted it.

Are men then not aware that equality is the basis of law and morality?

Are you?
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Didn't you read the quote I supplied you?

"The women I interviewed hated the word ambition when applied to their own lives. For these women ambition necessarily implied egotism, selfishness, self-aggrandizement, or the manipulative use of others for one’s own ends." http://www.womensmedia.com/balance/92-ambition-in-women.html​

Should men just assume women want the things they do, and act accordingly? Or should women take the lead on their own concerns? Should men just enforce an overwhelming equality? What about financial responsibility and custody of children? What about divorce settlements? http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_york/gender_bias_continues
 
Syne said:
Should men just assume women want the things they do, and act accordingly? Or should women take the lead on their own concerns? Should men just enforce an overwhelming equality?
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Yes to all.

If people are concerned with justice.

Regards
DL
 
Lilith was the female essence, with God in the beginning. She was connected to substance and matter. God was the male or animating principle. In modern times God could be energy and force. The male leading the female is energy and force moving matter. It is symbolism.

In the story of Adam and Eve, the reverse occurs with the female (matter) leading the male (spirit) but only after another male (snake), leads her. She eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and gets Adam to eat. The male snake cons the female who coxes/nags the male until he gives in.

This is the same sequence as modern time. The snake in the tree is liberalism and PC. This deviate male spirit is influencing the females to eat of laws of subjective good and evil to get men to conform so females can create the illusion of equal. Adam is not ready to eat, since he learned from history. The first wave broke up the family now there is so much extra burden on culture. The snake saw that this worked once and is trying again. Eve likes to be told what she wants to hear.

If you look at the female, her ability to make babies requires a lot body and mind resources build into her DNA. This connection to biology and babies is the matter aspect associated with the female. The male does not have this same requirement. Rather his parallel resources are freed up and can be used for other things. Whether you like it or not, most of the creative influx in culture, in terms of new ideas and technology come from men. This is the spiritual aspect symbolized by the male since it starts in the mind (spirit) and then moves into matter (bridge). This is Lilith and God in their natural state. God thinks and his wife Lilith is molded into form with both working as a team; symbolism.

The current feminists movement is Adam and Eve with Eve trying to get Adam to eat a line of bull (not even tasty like an apple) coming from a snake in the tree. This snake likes laws and regulations which promise so much, yet seem to lead in social disaster. Adam is not biting this time around. Instead he is figuring out how to cut the head off the snake.

Here is a solution, to test the wisdom of the snake. Men and women are equal, according to the snake. Therefore the males should take all their toys such as knowledge and technology, and place a male only copyright on it.

The females have to create this all for themselves. This should be easy since the snake says they are equal. Eve likes this snake, and he has to be right and if he says you are equal, he wouldn't lie? The reality is females are complementary (Lilith) to males and both men and women benefit when they work as a team. This is the original Lilith and God. Equal is a lie from the snake. It requires laws of good and evil from snake's tree to force fit a temporary deprive from disaster.
 
Greatest I am said:
Yes to all.

If people are concerned with justice.
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Justice is blind, huh?

So women cannot get an abortion without the consent of the father, cannot get the majority of the financial burden for those children foisted on the father, whether they are with them or not, and don't automatically get favoritism in settlements for divorces they initiate more of than men?

Go right ahead and try. Let me know how that works out for you.


P.S. What, no comment on you hypocritically implying I didn't read the link I posted? Nothing about your previous assertion that freedom is only taken?
 
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Greatest I am said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhTpjgJay0U

I see a couple who need to think.
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And I see one who still needs to take more than a cursory glance only to confirm their bias. The primary topic of that hearing was whether the policy infringed on religious freedom. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/17/us/politics/birth-control-coverage-rule-debated-at-house-hearing.htmlAny reasonable person should find it trivial that women would generally want the freedom to decide whether or not to use contraceptives. The question raised by the hearing is who should pay for it, NOT whether it should be available at all.

Women not being highly involved is a sensational red herring, nothing more.
 
GEOGRAPHY OF A WOMAN

Between 18 and 22, a woman is like Africa.
Half discovered, half wild, fertile and naturally Beautiful!

Between 23 and 30, a woman is like Europe.
Well developed and open to trade, especially for someone of real value.

Between 31 and 35, a woman is like Spain.
Very hot, relaxed and convinced of her own beauty.

Between 36 and 40, a woman is like Greece.
Gently aging but still a warm and desirable place to visit.

Between 41 and 50, a woman is like Great Britain.
Has a glorious and all conquering past.

Between 51 and 60, a woman is like Israel.
Has been through war, doesn't make the same mistakes twice and takes care of business.

Between 61 and 70, a woman is like Canada.
Self-preserving, but open to meeting new people.

After 70, she becomes Tibet.
Wildly beautiful, with a mysterious past and the wisdom of the ages.
An adventurous spirit and a thirst for spiritual knowledge.



THE GEOGRAPHY OF A MAN
Between 1 and 90, a man is like Iran, entirely ruled by a couple of nuts.

THE END.
 
Moronic feminist nonsense.

Do you ever defend ANY of the assertions you make? It seems you just troll away until someone puts you in your place and then you just ignore it like it never happened.

Woman: "How do you write women so well?"
Melvin: "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."​

Perhaps you're a woman.
 
I've never heard of Lilith, so I googled her:
Lilith (Hebrew: לילית‎; lilit, or lilith) is a character in Jewish mythology, developed earliest in the Babylonian Talmud, who is generally thought to be related to a class of female demons Līlīṯu in Mesopotamian texts. However, Lowell K. Handy (1997) notes, "Very little information has been found relating to the Akkadian and Babylonian view of these demons. Two sources of information previously used to define Lilith are both suspect."[1] The two problematic sources are the Gilgamesh appendix and the Arslan Tash amulets, which are discussed below.[2]
The term Lilith occurs in Isaiah 34:14, either singular or plural according to variations in the earliest manuscripts, though in a list of animals. In the Dead Sea Scrolls Songs of the Sage the term first occurs in a list of monsters. In Jewish magical inscriptions, on bowls and amulets from the 6th century CE onwards, Lilith is identified as a female demon and the first visual depictions appear.
In Jewish folklore, from the 8th–10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira onwards, Lilith becomes Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time and from the same earth as Adam. This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs. The legend was greatly developed during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism.[3] In the 13th Century writings of Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, for example, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she mated with archangel Samael.[4] The resulting Lilith legend is still commonly used as source material in modern Western culture, literature, occultism, fantasy, and horror
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Wikipedia
I guess this explains The Lilith fair
 
Syne said:
Moronic feminist nonsense.

Do you ever defend ANY of the assertions you make? It seems you just troll away until someone puts you in your place and then you just ignore it like it never happened.

Woman: "How do you write women so well?"
Melvin: "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."​

Perhaps you're a woman.
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I am willing to defend any assertion I make with anyone willing to be civil and stick to the issue under discussion. That is not you. You accentuate towards the personal and I do not play those games.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
I am willing to defend any assertion I make with anyone willing to be civil and stick to the issue under discussion. That is not you. You accentuate towards the personal and I do not play those games.
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Troll avoidance from a troll. You've yet to defend a single point of yours I've refuted. You first responded with a, now hypocritical (as per your "personal" comment above), implied ad hominem and have only been randomly flitting from one point to the next seeking to find ANY that you think you can gain any traction on.

I've been quite civil, and you'll note that incivility is one of the favored accusations trolls use to deflect, to avoid answering questions and supporting their own assertions. It is very clearly you that doesn't "stick to the issue under discussion". You introduce something which I have shown myself perfectly willing to discuss, and the moment I point out your error you drop it like a hot coal.

It is your intellectual dishonesty that necessitates no expectation of civility, as how can anyone have a civil discussion with someone who has proven incapable of supporting the least of their own assertions or even just replying to relevant points made.

Whatever happened to discussing Lilith or the hearing on birth control coverage?
 
Syne said:
Troll avoidance from a troll. You've yet to defend a single point of yours I've refuted. You first responded with a, now hypocritical (as per your "personal" comment above), implied ad hominem and have only been randomly flitting from one point to the next seeking to find ANY that you think you can gain any traction on.

I've been quite civil, and you'll note that incivility is one of the favored accusations trolls use to deflect, to avoid answering questions and supporting their own assertions. It is very clearly you that doesn't "stick to the issue under discussion". You introduce something which I have shown myself perfectly willing to discuss, and the moment I point out your error you drop it like a hot coal.

It is your intellectual dishonesty that necessitates no expectation of civility, as how can anyone have a civil discussion with someone who has proven incapable of supporting the least of their own assertions or even just replying to relevant points made.

Whatever happened to discussing Lilith or the hearing on birth control coverage?
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You prove my point.

All the above is to the personal except perhaps the last line.

Regards
DL
 
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