Lies

[wesmorris]

That there's a complicated issue I realize, but as a blanket statment: Hey you lying bastards, cut it out. You suck and you're bringing down the species. If we want to advance, you gotta stop it. You're jacking things up for your species you jerks. Cut it out.

Discuss.

 

[guthrie]

Which lies and liers?

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by guthrie
Which lies and liers?

Every single one of them.

 

[sargentlard]

A lot of time we lie for good and to save others feelings. Lies come in many forms. Good lies and malicious lies.

I am assuming you are angry at the malicious lies for holding our species back.

 

[wesmorris]

I dunno, I think it's the little lies that fuck shit up as well. I think the only acceptable "lie" is to omit. In other words, if you can't formulate an earnest compliment.. just shut up or tell the truth.

The little lies pave the way for the big guys, don't you think?

 

[sargentlard]

Originally posted by wesmorris
I dunno, I think it's the little lies that fuck shit up as well. I think the only acceptable "lie" is to omit. In other words, if you can't formulate an earnest compliment.. just shut up or tell the truth.

The little lies pave the way for the big guys, don't you think?

Ahh yes, tis true. As yet again there are little lies that are told for good and little that snowball into big lies because one must lie and lie and lie to hide the previous lie.

I compliement many people in me class even when they don't impress me with their work but by telling them so i just give them confidence and evoke a smile. If i was blunt with them i would just provoke rancor and hate towards me.

Also lying to cover up simple mistakes leads to more horrendous lies and eventually you dig a grave far too big for yourself.

Lying in it self is a very subjective topic don't you think?

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by sargentlard
I compliement many people in me class even when they don't impress me with their work but by telling them so i just give them confidence and evoke a smile. If i was blunt with them i would just provoke rancor and hate towards me.

Well, that's a matter of presentation. You can tell someone they suck in not so many words. You can employ "constructive criticism" as well. Fact is that you lying to them only benefits YOU in the short term, but is no good to either of you in the long run.

Originally posted by sargentlard
Lying in it self is a very subjective topic don't you think?

Certainly. It gets complicated, especially when you lie so much that you can no longer tell your lies from truth... or when other people are doing that to you.

 

[sargentlard]

Originally posted by wesmorris
Well, that's a matter of presentation. You can tell someone they suck in not so many words. You can employ "constructive criticism" as well. Fact is that you lying to them only benefits YOU in the short term, but is no good to either of you in the long run.

That is what i do. I don't run up to their face and go all happy jolly on them and kiss their ass off because you know it is really unfair to both of us.

Certainly. It gets complicated, especially when you lie so much that you can no longer tell your lies from truth... or when other people are doing that to you.

I seem to suffer from the latter. I find lot of what people tell me to be lies even though it might be opposite of that in many cases. I know many who are very distrustful of peoples actions simply because they lie so much all day to keep people feelings that they have taken it as a stone cold fact that others do the same.

Hmm..lying to help others only does the oppsoite but being blunt and honest is so hard for many of us.

 

[and2000x]

Not all lies are actual lies, but disagreements. For example: the old thread on the existence of race. Both sides accused the other of lieing, yet it was all a matter of persective.

Idea: Kill all liars. If some kid says he didn't steal a pack of gum when he really did, the law should hold him accountable and automatically execute him. Simple enough.

 

[whitewolf]

That there's a complicated issue I realize

Complicated, indeed. Consider this: there is no truth, and there is no lie in the world. Why, you may ask. Well, every truth has a bit of a lie in it, and every lie has a bit of truth. Every truth has a lie in it due to speaker's misconceptions and other things that mix in. Every lie has truth in it, because it is essentially what the speaker wants to have taken place instead of actual events. (I hope this is legible)

 

[sargentlard]

Originally posted by and2000x


Idea: Kill all liars. If some kid says he didn't steal a pack of gum when he really did, the law should hold him accountable and automatically execute him. Simple enough.

Yes, let's...because making more problems instead of solving them is more of a efficient method to move our humanity forward.

 

[altec]

Isn't this almost like the subject of morality? I mean that truth and lies are based on opinion, like morals, and they differ from person to person. We all know the saying "Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one", and this seems to play into this issue quite a bit.

Lets say that I was told that it was ok for me to judge people based on the color of their skin or their sexuality for my entire life. To take it further, let's say that my entire life I was told that these people were inferrior to me because I am a straight white male. Well if someone came along and told me different, I would call them a liar, and would have the right to believe that wholeheartedly.

I agree that all lies are wrong, even if it is a small lie to console somebody. If you lie to that person to make them feel better, someone else is going to come along and tell them the truth and make you look like a jerk. Aside from that, it gives people false security and when they find out that everyone has been lying to them, it could cause some sort of complex.

 

[ele]

well since i thinkt he function of human beings ias a part of the universe as a species uniquely equipped to do so is to express and articulate truth and create reality to best represent/reflect truth, then i agree to knowingly lie is very unethical and inappropriate.

However, sometimes people may lie acoordingt o others but be telling the truth according to themselves- I mean genuinely, not just purportedly. In this sense, truth is relate dto belief. And sometimes, when no evidence indicates further knowlkedge either way conclusively, two truths may be equally operative and correct. A belief in God and a non-belief in God are both true for instance, but for didfferent people.

Although i must say that i think more of the people who if they believe in god set out to actally make thw world lfilled with the kindness and compassion and fairnes he/she represents, than those who accept the lot of the poor and the downtrodden and discriminatory politics.

 

[wesmorris]

Hmmm.. is a lie a response to a perceived danger? I suppose there are a multitude of relevant motivations, but it seemed to me for a second that all of them share an element of perceived danger. It always directly precedes acknowledgement of the commitment to lie.

(btw I would say (and I know this complicates things even further in a way, I'll type the proper wording of this when I remember it) that that lies are conscious or the resultant of a purposeful act of deceit)

 

[SwedishFish]

i kind of agree with you. for myself anyway. i don't like the idea of forcing my beliefs on other people so if they want to lie, whatever. i don't see why lying is necessary. if you're too fragile to hear the truth, not my problem. i'm not going to lie to spare your feelings. lying bastards.
omission is ok in some situations, but lying is weak.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by SwedishFish
lying is weak.

Which is ultimately why I believe it such a detriment to the species.

 

[kajolishot]

Lies is the same as deception and we as species
must work to eliminate the trait.

A lie told thousands time over becomes the truth, so can we trust our history and past?

 

[sargentlard]

Originally posted by kajolishot


A lie told thousands time over becomes the truth, so can we trust our history and past?

An excellent point. It is frequently believed that many of the histories famous documents (bible for one comes to mind) was altered by man to better suit the prevaling beliefs of then.

For the most part i trust the textbooks word on our history but you never know when a lie on such a massive scale can slip under you.

Also i wonder is lying as much detrimental to species as not having the correct information? As in information about certain things vary from society to society.....information that should be objective with no known variations (scientific info for example) ?