Kuwait Takes Some Small Steps...

S.A.M. said:
Indeed.
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Well duh. The girls who were being raped on the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Texas were all crying passionately about being pulled away from their happy situation. They too were oppressed under tyrannical men, they too were given no rights, they too were forced to dress a certain way, and yet when it all came tumbling down, they too they begged for a return to it.

Saying that oppressed women were okay with the oppression is idiotic because people fear change, even the oppressed. Brain wash ANY child from the point their borne, and you can bet that by the time they reach adulthood, the vast majority of them will come to accept and desire such treatment.

~String
 
DiamondHearts said:
I can tell the majority of people have never been to Iran. Many Iranian women dress like this: http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gWj7N8fdpdju/610x.jpg This picture was taken in Iran.
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Uh.... okay. She's still wearing all black and covering her head. And links have been provided that show that the Iranian police intentionally "crack down" on women who refuse to wear the "appropriate" garb.

I don't need to go to North Korea to know that it's a living hell there.

~String
 
Repo Man said:
Except for the women who disagree. But no, everyone is happy with the status quo, just as the nigras (as my southern grandmother used to call them) were happy with the way things were in the south until that uppity MLK and other troublemakers stirred things up.
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The women who disagree can lodge a complaint and try to get the judiciary to change it. Once again, there is no comparison between a whole country agreeing on a certaind ress code, to a numberof states agreeing that some humans are inferior and only worthy as slaves.
 
Repo Man said:
Appeal to tradition. There are stupid laws all over the world, and I'm certainly not excluding the country I live in. I have the right to point out how I like how things are done better in some places than in other places. Cultural relativism is fine, but it doesn't give people license to oppress others, and then shrug their shoulders and say "That's just how we do things here."
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Its like saying 14 year olds are being oppressed here because they cant get married. Society agreed it should be 18. There are some who disagree and want it lowered. What do they do? They campaign for it. Its the same in Iran: the vast majority of women want that dress code. Some dont and they can campaign to get it changed.
 
Arsalan said:
The women who disagree can lodge a complaint and try to get the judiciary to change it. Once again, there is no comparison between a whole country agreeing on a certaind ress code, to a numberof states agreeing that some humans are inferior and only worthy as slaves.
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We aren't talking about the legality of it. Whatever the country says is the law, is the law. So, big deal.

What we're talking about here is SHOULD women be forced to cover their heads under threat of fine or imprisonment.

~String
 
iceaura said:
Whatever. But the situation is misogynistic and oppressive on the part of the State. We can at least agree on the description of the physical reality, eh?
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There is a separation of powers, so its not the state per se, but the judiciary, which was elected and told by the vast majority of society what they found acceptable and what they didnt. If women choose to wear it, classifiying it as mysoginistic is unfair.

We are talking about the laws of the massuhs, not the women.
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And strangely, its the women in the masses who want to wear these dresses and will fight for it.

We see Muslim women wearing those outfits in Minnesota, where they are unsuited to the climate and circumstances, for example. We see Muslim women swimming in them.
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Ofcourse. This alone proves my point: they are not forced, they want to wear them, since there is no such dress code in Minnesota. Besides, what a lot of people dont understand when it comes to wearing coverup is that it differs from region to region. Regions with a lot of sunhine for example are home to a full dress doverup to protect against the sun. We see this in a lot of Arab countries where the men and women wear full clothing most of the time and cover their heads.
 
superstring01 said:
We aren't talking about the legality of it. Whatever the country says is the law, is the law. So, big deal.

What we're talking about here is SHOULD women be forced to cover their heads under threat of fine or imprisonment.

~String
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And I say they arent being forced since they elected for that to be the law.
 
fedr808 said:
Really? and how many lashes did she get? 30? 40? 50?
Or was she stoned?
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Meh, not any more than the lesbian raped in San Francisco for being, well, a lesbian. Or the citizens Moral Police in Israel stoning and attacking women who dont listen to men.
 
Arsalan said:
Meh, not any more than the lesbian raped in San Francisco for being, well, a lesbian. Or the citizens Moral Police in Israel stoning and attacking women who dont listen to men.
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But we aren't talking about those incidents, which incidents, nobody is defending. In fact, I'm not defending ANY Israeli practice or any discriminatory practice of any nation. You (and people like you), however, are. That's the issue.

~String
 
superstring01 said:
But we aren't talking about those incidents, which incidents, nobody is defending. In fact, I'm not defending ANY Israeli practice or any discriminatory practice of any nation. You (and people like you), however, are. That's the issue.

~String
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Actually no, Im not defending arresting people for wearing something, or not wearing something. Im merely saying that a whole country, filled with millions of people, with a separation of powers, has elected to put in place certain laws. If someone disagrees with those laws, they can cmpaign to get them changed. So my point is, that there is no comparison between that and accepted racism, nor can it be called mysoginistic since women have elected that law as well.
 
Arsalan said:
There is a separation of powers, so its not the state per se, but the judiciary, which was elected and told by the vast majority of society what they found acceptable and what they didnt.
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The Iranian judiciary is not elected, and so isn't accountable to society. They only worry about what the Supreme Leader (also unelected) finds acceptable.

One of the first acts of the Revolution was to expunge all female jurists, and pass a law preventing any women from becoming judges there ever again.

But it's not the judiciary that makes laws. That's how "separation of powers" works.

Arsalan said:
Ofcourse. This alone proves my point: they are not forced, they want to wear them, since there is no such dress code in Minnesota.
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There exist mechanisms of force, other than legal dress codes.
 
I don't see the obsession, most Arab women look like men in drag. If you want to see some women check out the subcontinent.
 
Arsalan said:
Actually no, Im not defending arresting people for wearing something, or not wearing something. Im merely saying that a whole country, filled with millions of people, with a separation of powers, has elected to put in place certain laws. If someone disagrees with those laws, they can cmpaign to get them changed. So my point is, that there is no comparison between that and accepted racism, nor can it be called mysoginistic since women have elected that law as well.
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What separation of powers? The whole government exists at the discretion of the Ayatollah & Council of Guardians. In fact, the Council of Guardians has banned whole political parties & candidates which had the de facto result of removing the ONLY reformer in the current regime's history from being able to compete.

Yeah. Really fair.

~String
 
Mod Note: SAM this is your second and last warning. This debate is not about the USA. If you want to bring up all the bad stuff the USA does (which things have nothing to do with oppression in other countries), start another thread or dig one up to post in. This discussion is about the oppression of women in the Mideast. If you don't like it, then don't post.
 
which things have nothing to do with oppression in other countries
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Do you think the removal of Mossadegh and the installation of the Shah has nothing to do with the situation in Iran?

Do you think the continued sanctions since the 1980s have no effect on education and empowerment of women there?

And finally, what does Iran have to do with Kuwait?
Or is only criticism of the US a problem? If we can discuss Iran, why can't we discuss the US?
 
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Iran has a completely different history, religious organisation and culture than Kuwait. They don't even speak the same language.

Besides, string and DH were already having a discussion on the US. If string doesn't want to discuss the US in this thread, he should not have continued the discussion. He's moderating a discussion on the US which he is participating in because he is American. But he's okay with people discussing other countries. If someone can compare Kuwait to Iran, I can certainly compare it to any other country. Otherwise, its bias and he's allowing personal opinion to dictate moderation. If it were an Iranian moderator deleting references to Iran, you'd never hear the end of it.
 
Apologies for meta-discussion, but my vote is also for string to let this one slide, or at least narrow the objection.
 
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