i find the human mind is something like a bridge- one of those ones that rely on gravity to hold it in place, the ones with the key stones- but the key stone for a relgious person is their religous beflief i.e. their core, their person. i think that to this end this is the reason that people who are religious fight so fervently to protect their religion; they do so because they think people are attacking their "key stone", or in other words, their very base person. to remove the key stone from a bridge is to make it collapse- to remove a persons belief is to collapse their person. that is why i find religious people can't entertain any type of idea that might cause a crack in their core belief, and why people who have found their own beliefs are able to think more freely because we can entertain ideas that will not debase what we have built our lives around. it is self protection- one that causes narrow mindedness.
Key Stones
- Thread starter atheroy
- Start date
grimreaper
Registered Senior Member
all is religion
the problem is that any Philosophy that we live by becomes our religion.
with respect
the problem is that any Philosophy that we live by becomes our religion.
with respect
your overall idea is correct; it is important to have an open mind and to consider all opinions... this is important to our personal development and to the development of the society as a whole;
however, some religious people do have an open mind;
some people are taught to question the existance of God, and it is thru their personal observations and experiences that they find their religion... others find their own beliefs without a God
people who have found their own beliefs are sometimes very stubborn to considering the opinions of others as well
overall, I cannot say it is the tendancy of either group; it seems to me that the individual who has an open mind can be either religious or non religious.
a cult religion would be more along the lines of what you are referring to... in my opinion
I have had some very good intellectual debates with both religious and non religious, I think it depends moreso on the indivividual
however, some religious people do have an open mind;
some people are taught to question the existance of God, and it is thru their personal observations and experiences that they find their religion... others find their own beliefs without a God
people who have found their own beliefs are sometimes very stubborn to considering the opinions of others as well
overall, I cannot say it is the tendancy of either group; it seems to me that the individual who has an open mind can be either religious or non religious.
a cult religion would be more along the lines of what you are referring to... in my opinion
I have had some very good intellectual debates with both religious and non religious, I think it depends moreso on the indivividual
Guru
Registered Senior Member
Atheory / Stray Dog
Very apt analogy !!
Consider yourself as the only person born on this planet.... no prophets no religion no holy book...
You start to build something out of thin air ... calling day a day and night a night... drinking water ...eating fruits....
Now back to reality ... why can't we live like that in our current time and respect each other's private space... the problem begins when you start to push your belief down my throat or me doing that to you ....
Coming back to your analogy you(does not mean you) want your Neighbor's keystone to be painted in your keystone's color ...whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddhism......etc....
Maybe my Keystone has an anti-color coating ....
Peace Out
Very apt analogy !!
Consider yourself as the only person born on this planet.... no prophets no religion no holy book...
You start to build something out of thin air ... calling day a day and night a night... drinking water ...eating fruits....
Now back to reality ... why can't we live like that in our current time and respect each other's private space... the problem begins when you start to push your belief down my throat or me doing that to you ....
Coming back to your analogy you(does not mean you) want your Neighbor's keystone to be painted in your keystone's color ...whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddhism......etc....
Maybe my Keystone has an anti-color coating ....
Peace Out
yes, it is important to consider the opinions of others; yet hostility can arise when someone is trying to force their own beliefs on you
we are all born into this world and eventually wonder if there is the possibilty that we can be born into another world after death;
- the skeptic is seeking a bit of a clue, something to go on, that
which can be seen and understood in a physical sense; the
skeptic usually understands the capabilities of man, that we
have more to learn and to discover; he understands that at
one time the Earth was flat and to think otherwise would have
been considered foolish. the skeptic is looking in nature, and
quantum mechanics, and in all of science for these clues to an
afterlife.
- the religious zealot on the other hand is convinced through a
blinding faith, and seeks to impose his or her beliefs onto
everyone, and frequently becomes a bit too overbearing at
times. it is frequently difficult for a religious zealot to even
consider any other opinons other than what he has been taught.
this is where most problems occur in religious debate
- if someone believes that there is a Creator of the Universe, but
is not a religious zealot, this person is more likely to consider the
opinions of others with an open mind
there are many opinions and beliefs, and it is these opinions that we should use as a tool to better understand how we became to exist in this universe. we try to learn from those that have lived before us, and we should try to learn from those who live with us at this time; the sharing of thoughts and opinions is a bit more manageable than an arguement, and it is interesting to me to read the opinions posted in these religious threads;
just please continue to feed me, for I am taking it all in with joy.
we are all born into this world and eventually wonder if there is the possibilty that we can be born into another world after death;
- the skeptic is seeking a bit of a clue, something to go on, that
which can be seen and understood in a physical sense; the
skeptic usually understands the capabilities of man, that we
have more to learn and to discover; he understands that at
one time the Earth was flat and to think otherwise would have
been considered foolish. the skeptic is looking in nature, and
quantum mechanics, and in all of science for these clues to an
afterlife.
- the religious zealot on the other hand is convinced through a
blinding faith, and seeks to impose his or her beliefs onto
everyone, and frequently becomes a bit too overbearing at
times. it is frequently difficult for a religious zealot to even
consider any other opinons other than what he has been taught.
this is where most problems occur in religious debate
- if someone believes that there is a Creator of the Universe, but
is not a religious zealot, this person is more likely to consider the
opinions of others with an open mind
there are many opinions and beliefs, and it is these opinions that we should use as a tool to better understand how we became to exist in this universe. we try to learn from those that have lived before us, and we should try to learn from those who live with us at this time; the sharing of thoughts and opinions is a bit more manageable than an arguement, and it is interesting to me to read the opinions posted in these religious threads;
just please continue to feed me, for I am taking it all in with joy.
DefSkeptic
Registered Senior Member
I believe this is true.
But I do have a tendancy to think that for the most part on average the religious will tend to be more stubborn with their beliefs. My reasoning behind this is.....If a theist is to be proven wrong they have a lot to lose and very little to gain(lose=comfort/gain=truth), the atheist if proven wrong would have much to gain(gain=comfort). So it would be beneficial for a religious person to hold strong to their beliefs because to lose God would be catostrophic to their psyche.
This poses a good question. Why wouldnt the atheist invest in self deception to receive superficial but nonetheless quality comfort? To go by the old adage- "ignorance is bliss". I already believe I have the answer, which is quite simple- you cant consciously will yourself to self deception. Simply, the truth is too strong to resist, even if you want to believe, the truth has a mighty firm grip.
and so the question is: what is the truth?
the religious person says the truth will be revealed at the time of death...
the athiest says there is no evidence of this, so the truth is you
simply become nothing after death...
one of these two people is correct.
one of these two poeple will be proven wrong at death.
the "comfort" of the religious person is frequently a strong faith,
and this person is trying to show others the way. This may be why it is the tendancy of the religious to be a bit overbearing at times, but he should still have an open mind.
the "truth" of there being God or not is unknown to the athiest,
the "truth" to there being a God is known to the religious.
this riddle of nature has always been the big question of man,
and I still find the arguements on both sides enlightening.
the religious person says the truth will be revealed at the time of death...
the athiest says there is no evidence of this, so the truth is you
simply become nothing after death...
one of these two people is correct.
one of these two poeple will be proven wrong at death.
the "comfort" of the religious person is frequently a strong faith,
and this person is trying to show others the way. This may be why it is the tendancy of the religious to be a bit overbearing at times, but he should still have an open mind.
the "truth" of there being God or not is unknown to the athiest,
the "truth" to there being a God is known to the religious.
this riddle of nature has always been the big question of man,
and I still find the arguements on both sides enlightening.
DefSkeptic
Registered Senior Member
Stray Dog-
Since you cannot really know something that is not proven, I assume you believe that the religious are supplying themselves with a false sense of knowledge. To know for certain something they do not know for certain, seems to involve some deception or should I say some self convincing. But to be fair, atheists can be said to "know" the truth regarding God, in both cases an absolute CERTAINTY is not acheived.
Since you cannot really know something that is not proven, I assume you believe that the religious are supplying themselves with a false sense of knowledge. To know for certain something they do not know for certain, seems to involve some deception or should I say some self convincing. But to be fair, atheists can be said to "know" the truth regarding God, in both cases an absolute CERTAINTY is not acheived.
Yes, I suppose you could say that an absolute certainty is not achieved in both cases.
Some religious people have an experience, and/or find clues that
reveal to them the existance of God. Yet these same experiences or clues mean nothing to others. So to others, there is no absolute certainty.
An athiest may be looking for physical evidence of God, and not having found any, this reveals to them that there is no God.
It seems to me there is no absolute certainty, depending upon the interpretaion;
the Earth goes around the Sun in the life zone only by chance,
according to the athiest.
the Earth goes around the Sun in the life zone due to Gods hand,
according to the religious.
if the Earth were a bit closer, it would burn up, and if it were a bit further out it would freeze; interpretation of natural laws.
How does one view the universe? So in both cases, it is interpretation.
Some religious people have an experience, and/or find clues that
reveal to them the existance of God. Yet these same experiences or clues mean nothing to others. So to others, there is no absolute certainty.
An athiest may be looking for physical evidence of God, and not having found any, this reveals to them that there is no God.
It seems to me there is no absolute certainty, depending upon the interpretaion;
the Earth goes around the Sun in the life zone only by chance,
according to the athiest.
the Earth goes around the Sun in the life zone due to Gods hand,
according to the religious.
if the Earth were a bit closer, it would burn up, and if it were a bit further out it would freeze; interpretation of natural laws.
How does one view the universe? So in both cases, it is interpretation.
DefSkeptic
Registered Senior Member
stray Dog-
Very true, such in the cases of people seeing a recognizable object in cloud formations. Personally I find it quite absurb that a cloud's form has any meaning, but some find that it does.
Very true, such in the cases of people seeing a recognizable object in cloud formations. Personally I find it quite absurb that a cloud's form has any meaning, but some find that it does.
exactly.
it is how the emotion is read;
day and night will refer to life and death, and something to come after you die, to some people;
yet this is just the rotation of the planet to others...
the crawling insect becomes a butterfly means a new life to some, yet it means only a metamorphasis in nature to others...
the light from a star that died long ago has deep emotional meaning to someone in reference to eternal life, yet this is simply a law of nature to others...
these same experiences or clues mean nothing religious to many people, it seems to be personal interpretation.
the human mind is hungry for the "truth"
it is how the emotion is read;
day and night will refer to life and death, and something to come after you die, to some people;
yet this is just the rotation of the planet to others...
the crawling insect becomes a butterfly means a new life to some, yet it means only a metamorphasis in nature to others...
the light from a star that died long ago has deep emotional meaning to someone in reference to eternal life, yet this is simply a law of nature to others...
these same experiences or clues mean nothing religious to many people, it seems to be personal interpretation.
the human mind is hungry for the "truth"
DefSkeptic
Registered Senior Member
Stray Dog-
Those are some good analogies.
That it is.
Those are some good analogies.
That it is.
and this hunger is exactly why it is imperative to keep an open mind; we don't want to overlook anything.
our planet is teaming with all sorts of life; plants and animals in the sea and on land, humans of a diverse background of culture and race, and this variety of life has not been found anywhere else in the universe. Yet we continue to destroy our world by overfishing the seas, and polluting the air and water, and burning down the lush forrests, and we continue to kill our fellow man, and we continue to overpopulate the world.
our hunger for the "truth" implies that we should listen to the collective needs of mankind, and at the same time listen to what the individual has to say. A series of interpretations by others may lead an individual to better understand his "reason for being"
and also to understand the folly of man to destroy his world and himself.
mankind has advanced quite well in scientific terms, yet we are still questioning the understanding of our birth into this world,
and the birth of the universe as well. infinity/eternity are concepts we are aware of, yet we cannot fully comprehend.
we must consider all interpretations of the concept to better understand it. we study the elementary particiles in nature,
and we study the occurances in deep space to better understand
our universe. we study the human mind to better understand
ourselves. but we must listen to what others have to say, with an open mind, to better understand the short life of the individual.
it may be natures course never to reveal wether or not we are
reborn into another world after death. or the answer may be hidden among the clues offerd to us thru nature. it is important to keep an open mind in order to better understand.
our planet is teaming with all sorts of life; plants and animals in the sea and on land, humans of a diverse background of culture and race, and this variety of life has not been found anywhere else in the universe. Yet we continue to destroy our world by overfishing the seas, and polluting the air and water, and burning down the lush forrests, and we continue to kill our fellow man, and we continue to overpopulate the world.
our hunger for the "truth" implies that we should listen to the collective needs of mankind, and at the same time listen to what the individual has to say. A series of interpretations by others may lead an individual to better understand his "reason for being"
and also to understand the folly of man to destroy his world and himself.
mankind has advanced quite well in scientific terms, yet we are still questioning the understanding of our birth into this world,
and the birth of the universe as well. infinity/eternity are concepts we are aware of, yet we cannot fully comprehend.
we must consider all interpretations of the concept to better understand it. we study the elementary particiles in nature,
and we study the occurances in deep space to better understand
our universe. we study the human mind to better understand
ourselves. but we must listen to what others have to say, with an open mind, to better understand the short life of the individual.
it may be natures course never to reveal wether or not we are
reborn into another world after death. or the answer may be hidden among the clues offerd to us thru nature. it is important to keep an open mind in order to better understand.