Karma...

wet1

Wanderer
Registered Senior Member
Karma is a word that comes from Buddhist and Hindu traditions. It can be defined many ways:

* The law of cause and effect.
* What goes around comes around.
* You reap what you sow.
* Totally innocent victims are rare.
* No good deed goes unpunished.
* Your actions create ripples that spread out, echo and
constructively/destructively interfere with the ripples from
the actions of others.

If you want a definition to boggle your mind try these two:

* For every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first, and this second event will be pleasant or unpleasant according as its cause was skillful or unskillful. A skillful event is one that is not accompanied by craving, resistance or delusions; an unskillful event is one that is accompanied by any one of those things.
* The Law of Causal Condition is the fundamental doctrine of Buddhism. It states that all phenomena in the universe are produced by causation. Since all phenomena result from complicated causes and effects, all existing things in the universe are inter-dependent, i.e., have no self nature or existence on their own. Existence is defined solely by relationships.
Moreover, all phenomena and things are impermanent and constantly changing.
Karma is the Law of Causal Condition applied to an individual.


Cosmic Karma
Cosmic Consciousness is the point of view that we are all one. From the point of view of cosmic consciousness, karma is duck simple. If you poke a stick in someone's eye, it hurts, because it is your eye. It is not, strictly speaking, wicked, just stupid. However, it is little consolation when someone pokes you in the eye that it was you doing it. Similarly, when you give someone a massage, it feels good because they are you.

Thieves are sleepwalkers who steal from their own pockets.

Resonance
From the point of view of security, sensation and power, karma is morecomplex. There is the illusion of delayed reaction or hysteresis.

Think of it this way. Start singing the note G. If other people start
singing, they are more likely to sing G or a harmonic of G than any other note.

If you sing a hate note, other people are more likely to start singing a hate note. If you start singing a love note, other people are more likely to start singing a love note. If you start singing a panic note, you start a stampede.

What do you do if you come across a chorus of hate-singing war birds? It is not necessarily the optimal strategy to burst into a love song. They may perceive you as other and peck you to death. Sometimes it is wiser to blendwith the flock and gently attempt to lead it to more loving melodies.

Let us therefore reject all superstition in order to become more human; but in speaking against fanaticism, let us not imitate the fanatics: they are sick men in delirium who want to chastise their doctors. Let us assuage their ills, and never embitter them, and let us pour drop by drop into their souls the divine balm of toleration, which they would reject with horror if it were offered to them all at once. -- Voltaire [François Marie Arouet] (1694-1778)

Birds of a Feather
Saints hang out with saints and thieves hang out with thieves. That is one reason why thieves have more problems with pickpockets.

Security Karma
If you go to the aid of others in distress, others will be more likely to come to your aid when you get yourself in hot water. If you let others starve to death through your inaction, others will let you die in a similar way. If you let others die of diseases, you can't very well expect others to minister to you if you become sick.

Sensation Karma
If you pleasure others, others are more likely to feel like pleasuring you. If you make others miserable, others will find ways to make your life miserable.

Power Karma
If you are fair in your dealings with others, others will tend to be fair with you. If you bully people into doing what you want, the first chance they get they will rebel and bully you back. If you take unfair advantage of others, others will take unfair advantage of you. If you use excess force to make your point, others will use excess force to make their point with you.

Love Karma
If you are kind to creatures weaker than yourself, creatures wiser than you will treat you kindly.

Cornucopia Karma
If you share your abundance, your horn of plenty will never empty.

Conscious Awareness Karma:
If you control your emotions with others, others will control their tempers with you.

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished
Everything you do will offend someone. Even your every inaction will offend someone. You can't win. It is impossible to please everyone.

Your best strategy is just, as filmmaker Spike Lee advised, to Do The Right Thing and forget about karma both good and bad. Get on with your life. Don't waste time waiting for the karma to drop into your hand like jellybeans from a candy machine.

Cosmic Karma Revisited
When a single person does something drastic, good or bad, the effect may be absorbed and distributed by the universe over many people and many lifetimes. From the point of view of cosmic consciousness, there is only one actor and only one being acted upon. Don't waste you time worrying about reincarnation and how fat your personal karma account is. Just do the right
thing, as best you know.



*link*


So what are your thoughts people. Let's hear it... :)
 
Banshee

It is a great post. Few people understand what it means and fewer who can understand several moves ahead. Those who do become successful (happy) in life as happiness is our basal objective.

Karma is same thing as Chaos theory or Butterfly effect. Just old thought in the new science.
 
Karma is same thing as Chaos theory or Butterfly effect. Just old thought in the new science.

Ummm, no.

Karma is a metaphysical concept of retribution - Banshee's "What goes around comes around" is a good formulation.

The butterfly effect is basically a way of saying that even the smallest actions can have momentuous reactions.

From the link:
* Totally innocent victims are rare.

Words cannot describe how idiotic this statement is. To blame an infant who has Tay-Sachs for his illness is beyond disgusting.

Power Karma
If you are fair in your dealings with others, others will tend to be fair with you. If you bully people into doing what you want, the first chance they get they will rebel and bully you back. If you take unfair advantage of others, others will take unfair advantage of you. If you use excess force to make your point, others will use excess force to make their point with you.

*Laughs bitterly*

Joseph Mengle died of a heart attack while swimming in the Pacific.

Karma is just another way of consoling ourselves when the world is not fair. This does not make it a bad thing to believe in, however, there does not seem to be any evidence for its existance.

Mr.G:
Okay, I'm not proud, but I'll admit that it was me who brought about the first cause.
 
At my behest. ;)

In first-cause, kharmalic fashion, the two of us could go round and round about this.

:)
 
*Bats eyes*

Why Mr.G, I just love to go "round and round" with you.

In karmic fashion too! What a wonderfully depraved thought!
 
Originally posted by Xev
Ummm, no.

Karma is a metaphysical concept of retribution - Banshee's "What goes around comes around" is a good formulation.

Ummm, yes...

Karma is and has been a Sanskrit word since my Sanskrit studies many moons ago....(I got A in Sanskrit) unless you are changing the meaning like the word "gay".....:D

It is a physical cause-effect framework more so than metaphysical...although you could apply it to your metaphysical world too...but ...please dont hijack such a good word...then we will run out of all the good old words....:D
 
Karma....

Ummm, yes...

Karma is and has been a Sanskrit word since my Sanskrit studies many moons ago....(I got A in Sanskrit) unless you are changing the meaning like the word "gay".....

It is a physical cause-effect framework more so than metaphysical...although you could apply it to your metaphysical world too...but ...please dont hijack such a good word...then we will run out of all the good old words....

Kmguru, I've never studied Sanskrit, so I'll have to take your word for that.

However, I still think that the current cultural meaning of Karma is nothing like the butterfly affect.

Sorry if I came on too strong. Speaking of come-ons.....

*Xev the athiest tries to affect a "penitent Catholic schoolgirl" look and fails miserably*
 
Re: Karma....

Originally posted by Xev

However, I still think that the current cultural meaning of Karma is nothing like the butterfly affect.

Butterfly effect is a cause-effect framework. It is a subset of Chaos theory. Even in butterfly effect, certain stimulus do get amplified not by themselves but through a series of events which ultimately results the outcome. If you take a subset of those phases, they can be considered Karmic events.

Gandhi -->schooling in Europe -->South Africa --->leading for independence can be considered Karmic events (he said himself in his speeches)
 
Kmguru:
Butterfly effect is a cause-effect framework. It is a subset of Chaos theory. Even in butterfly effect, certain stimulus do get amplified not by themselves but through a series of events which ultimately results the outcome. If you take a subset of those phases, they can be considered Karmic events.

I think we are going from very different ideas of karma. Could you explain what you mean by "karma" a bit better?

I think it was a semantic difference, sorry.
 
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If you take a subset of those phases, they can be considered Karmic events.
No information>imagination>supposition>presumption>nonsense

I see what you mean.
 
The primary meaning of Karma in Sanskrit means: Deed, Action that has consequences.

Other meanings include: Fate, Destiny

In the context of Hinduism & Buddhism: The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny.

\Kar"ma\, n. [Skr.] (Buddhism) One's acts considered as fixing one's lot in the future existence. (Theos.) The doctrine of fate as the inflexible result of cause and effect; the theory of inevitable consequence.

In Buddhist teaching, the law of karma, says only this: `for every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first, and this second event will be pleasant or unpleasant according as its cause was skillful or unskillful.' A skillful event is one that is not accompanied by craving, resistance or delusions; an unskillful event is one that is accompanied by any one of those things. (Events are not skillful in themselves, but are so called only in virtue of the mental events that occur with them.) Link: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/freenet/...gion/buddhism/introduction/truths/karma2.html

Xev, this religious/philosophical view is where you may be going - but that does not change the base meaning and its modern interpretation/relation to the new science (a la Wolfram)

Details on Chaos theory at : http://www.mathjmendl.org/chaos/
 
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Originally posted by Xev


Words cannot describe how idiotic this statement is. To blame an infant who has Tay-Sachs for his illness is beyond disgusting.


Karma goes much further than the scope of one life time. Maybe if that baby was a monkey in a previous life and it suffocated another monkey with its shit. Karma is larger. You should read up more before downsizing it.
 
Karma is a word....
Few people understand what it means....
Karma is and has been a Sanskrit word....
Deed, Action..../....consecuences....Fate....Destiny
Karma goes much further than the scope of one life time. Karma is larger. You should read up more before downsizing it.
So, it would seem that Kharma's own kharma is to be misunderstood. So much for unambiguous "inevitable consequence"

:D :D
 
Um, I've got a date tonight, and we want to go to the drive-in. Can I borrow your Kharma?
 
All words are "made up". ;)

Most have alternate spellings, each with their own cultural significance.

Begin your search there.
 
Originally posted by Banshee

* The Law of Causal Condition is the fundamental doctrine of Buddhism. It states that all phenomena in the universe are produced by causation. Since all phenomena result from complicated causes and effects, all existing things in the universe are inter-dependent, i.e., have no self nature or existence on their own. Existence is defined solely by relationships.
Moreover, all phenomena and things are impermanent and constantly changing.
Karma is the Law of Causal Condition applied to an individual.


thoughts on articles please?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4113727,00.html

"And if that wasn't enough, quantum mechanics also removes causation from the world. Consider an undecided atom. Say it does decay. What caused that decay? The uncertainty principle denies the existence of any influence smaller than the atom's own h-sized chunk of reality. When the atom decays, it just does; entirely randomly, entirely without cause. Everything we see ultimately depends on quantum events that have popped out of h-shaped packages of uncertainty. Quantum mechanics offers us a world without reason."


http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/causation-backwards/

Backward Causation

"Sometimes also called retro-causation. A common feature of our world seems to be that in all cases of causation, the cause and the effect are placed in time so that the cause precedes its effect temporally. Our normal understanding of causation assumes this feature to such a degree that we intuitively have great difficulty imagining things differently. The notion of backward causation, however, stands for the idea that the temporal order of cause and effect is a mere contingent feature and that there may be cases where the cause is causally prior to its effect but where the temporal order of the cause and effect is reversed with respect to normal causation, i.e. there may be cases where the effect temporally, but not causally, precedes its cause.

The idea of backward causation should not be confused with that of time travel. These two notions are related to the extent that both agree that it is possible to causally affect the past. The difference, however, is that time travel involves a causal loop whereas backward causation does not. Causal loops for their part can only occur in a universe in which one has closed time-like curves. In contrast, backward causation may take place in a world where there are no such closed time-like curves. In other words, an ordinary system S taking part in time travel would preserve the temporal order of its proper time during its travel, it would keep the same time sense during its entire flight (a watch measuring S's proper time would keep moving clockwise); but if the same system S were to become involved in a process of backward causation, the order of its proper time would have to reverse in the sense that the time sense of the system would become opposite of what it was before its back-in-time travel (the watch will start to move counter-clockwise). So neither backward causation nor time travel logically entails each other and time travel is distinct from back-in-time travel."

imh interpretation of above quote

a causes b and b causes c..
c, however is observed before b
 
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