Joseph

[spuriousmonkey]

Na ja, I was in Sweden for a romantic weekend and spend quite a lot of time in the hotel room. Of course this hotel room had a copy of the new testament. So I read one page (I honestly couldn't stand reading more). It is about our little friend joseph and his little male anxieties.

I always thought somehow that it was Maria who had the vision that she was impregnated by the holy spirt. Alas, I now had to read that Joseph was secretlively planning to break up with Maria because she was pregant, and they were just engaged and not living together. Oh the shame. Maria had sex with the stable boy or one of her uncles and now she was with child.

Joseph was apparently one of those people whose live is dictated by appareances. He wanted to dump her. But he was under such stress that one night he dreamt that an angel visited HIM and told HIM that the baby was conceived by the holy spirit.

It actually didn't matter what Maria thought in this matter. Probably she was quite happy that her fiance Joseph was not entirely mentally stable. "Yes of course it was the holy spirit and not the stable boy with his wonderful chesthair", she probably had replied to Joseph. She would have had a shitty time having a baby without a husband.

What a male orientated piece of crap the bible is. It is written from Josephs perspective and his little male anxieties.

Am I interpreting this wrong?

 

[Nehushta]

Consider that Mark was most likely the first of the synoptic gospels written, and that Jesus is referred to therein as the son of Mary (see Mark 6:3), which would never have been done in those days if he'd had a father. The only Joseph mentioned in the book of Mark was Joseph of Arimathaea. The other gospels were taken from Mark and added onto at the authors' whims. It looks to me like Jesus was an illegitimate child (that is, assuming he ever lived as a flesh-and-blood human being at all, which is questionable), and Joseph's dream was a figment of the writer's imagination (as apparently was Joseph himself).

 

[spuriousmonkey]

This is the way Jesus Christ was born. Mary, his mother, was promised to Joseph to be his wife. But before they were married, she found out that she was going to have a baby. It was by the Holy Spirit. 19 Joseph, the man she was to marry, was a good man. He did not want her to be made ashamed. So he planned to leave her without telling people about it. 20 While he was thinking about this, he had a dream. An angel of the Lord came to him. He said, `Joseph, David's son, do not fear to take Mary to be your wife. Her baby is by the Holy Spirit. 21 She will have a baby son. Name him Jesus, because he will save his people from the wrong things they have done.' 22 All of this had been told long before by the Lord through his prophet. It came true. 23 The prophet said, `A young woman who has not slept with a man is going to have a baby son. His name will be Emmanuel. That means "God is with us." ' 24 Joseph woke up and did what the angel of the Lord told him to do. He took Mary to be his wife. 25 But he did not make love with her until her first son had been born. He named him Jesus.

the relevant quote from the bible.

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
Am I interpreting this wrong?

SpuriousMonkey, you think spuriously, i think. of late reading some adult stories..?

Is copulation a must for conception.?

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
the relevant quote from the bible.

Yes, but my point is that the references to Joseph are not taken from Mark, which, according to bible scholars, was the first gospel written. Mark doesn't mention Joseph at all, and even goes so far as to refer to Jesus as Mary's son, which simply wasn't done in those days unless a child was fatherless! The later gospels simply filled in the details about Jesus' earthly father so the story was more palatable to would-be worshippers of the new god.

So Joseph's dream, as well as Joseph himself, were figments of a later gospel-writer's imagination.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Re: Re: Joseph

Originally posted by everneo
Is copulation a must for conception.?

some people claim that you can get pregnant from the toilet seat, but I have 2 objections to that.

1. they didn't have toilet seats back then
2. this opinion is usually voiced by people that also watch MTV.

 

[everneo]

Spurious, you better drop the stable-boy conspiracy theory.!


Immaculate Conception Method Will Solve Ethical Problems Related to Use of Stem Cells


Parthenogenesis ('immaculate conception') as a way of reproduction is observed with snails, hydras, amoebas, infusoriums and earthworms. Lately, scientists have arrived at the conclusion that it probably can be used for production of stem cells. Outputs of research carried out in the US (which have been published in the latest issue of the Stem Cells journal, are going to solve many a moral problem related to use of stem cells.

Parthenogenesis consists in ovums developing without fertilization. In such cases, each cell contains two identical sets of chromosomes. With mammals, parthenogenesis can be stimulated by means of chemical treatment or electric discharge, but the embryos thus obtained do not last more than a few days. Until recently, only mouse and monkey fetal cells were thus obtained.

Lately, however, researchers from Stremton (a Maryland-based biotechnological company) have managed to obtain with the use of parthenogenesis human embryos that lasted several days.
...

Medics say they will probably manage to produce spermatozoa out of ordinary cells in the near future.

The research was carried out using cells extracted from mouse embryos, but most experts believe that the same method will work with human cells. The method shows much promise; probably, it can be used in future in reproductive technologies and regenerative medicine.

- http://www.barbadosspa.com/news/

You might probably know these possibilities, yet such indulgence, too bad..!

 

[spuriousmonkey]

If I am not mistaken there were no modern research labs in Betlehem in those days, or even now that could pull this trick off.

But if Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit I imagine that there was a 'normal' fertilization, with the exception that the holy spirit materialized his sperm directly into Maria's reproductive organ, without the use of a penis.

I am now also wondering if the holy spirit had consented sex with maria or if he raped her. Her opinion didn't seem to matter anyway.

But I think that developing an ovum shortly for medical purposes sounds nice, but it will never be able to develop into a fully developed human being. That would be hard to do without a full diploid status of certain genes. As you might know already some heterozygote mutations are lethal, which means that there is only one functional copy of the gene.

 

[everneo]

Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
If I am not mistaken there were no modern research labs in Betlehem in those days, or even now that could pull this trick off.

'accidents' occur outside the labs also.! some of the 'accidents' of evolutionists seem to be 'incidents' to theists. oh, never mind. finally it comes down to faith and anti-faith.

on academic interest, i would like to know whether lethal mutations cause instant death.?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Originally posted by everneo
'accidents' occur outside the labs also.! some of the 'accidents' of evolutionists seem to be 'incidents' to theists. oh, never mind. finally it comes down to faith and anti-faith.

on academic interest, i would like to know whether lethal mutations cause instant death.?

I don't think so.

You often see instant death when transgenic mice are born, but that is just because they then need structures that they never needed before, such as lungs (which might be absent due to the mutation).