John Edwards who next....?

oiram

Registered Senior Member
It never seems to amaze me how such a family oriented, and nice looking person can turn out to shock and surprise me, in this case former Sen. John Edwards whose recent affair was exposed. Why are such politicians including Bill Clinton, David Vesper, and Senator Larry Craig not charged with sex crimes and forced to register as sex offenders as their actions are illegal in most states regardless of the age of their victim?

I think politicians who are two faced liars should be forced to register as sex offenders in such circumstances and see how it feels being a registered sex offender. These guys make me sick as they are the same people making such strict laws against sex offenses while trying to pass themselves off as righteous do-gooders!
 
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There was, last month, an episode of the popular anti-war comic Get Your War On that considered the terrorist watch list:


David Rees, Get Your War On, July 16, 2008

It seems to me that a similar notion might apply. Unless I am missing something specific about their offenses, it seems to me that you are proposing that adulterers, such as Bill Clinton and John Edwards, ought to be on a sex-offender registry. I would suggest that this would demean the registry, in both ethical and functional aspects.

Start with the proposition that, wherever there might still exist laws criminalizing adultery, it would only harm the intended purpose of the registries—to inform citizens about potentially dangerous people in the community—to muck up the list with so many names. After all, if a cheating police officer arrests an adulterer, he might also face a future arrest. A unfaithful district attorney might someday face adultery charges of his or her own. Judges? Jurors?

On the one hand, adulterers generally tend to justify their behavior in some way: their partner was withholding, or perhaps unsatisfactory in, sexual contact; perhaps they reject monogamy in their own relationship—I am acquainted with at least one acknowledged open marriage, and have known many who sleep around in general. True, I would agree that these people probably should not have bothered with marriage in the first place, but neither my morals nor interpretations of law and circumstance are authoritative.

Perhaps if one does not trust his wife, for example, it might be desirable to know who in the neighborhood is a serial adulterer.

From my own viewpoint, I would not see my child's mother punished in such a manner for her own transgressions (she was married from the time I met her until after our daughter was born, which created certain legal headaches, anyway). More than her unfaithful tendencies in any allegedly-monogamous relationship, I would consider the psychological corruption at the root of her moral deviancy more important than the mere fact that she has, in the past, committed adultery. Nor would I consider judicial sanction for that deviancy to be profitable. The point, in her case, should be to repair the psychological corruption that motivates her lack of integrity, which course would not be well served by cornering her and forcing her to defend her current condition.

And, to consider my own history, I would think the three marriages I have intruded upon to be lesser considerations than other occasions. Much as I consider the sodomy I have participated in over the years insubstantial, so it is with adultery. Of more concern, I would think, would be instances of public sexuality (indecency or lewd conduct), and while I personally don't hire prostitutes, I see no reason why those friends of mine who do (two known, another broadly suspected, and a fourth in whose case it would not surprise me at all; there is another, as well, who I know hires sex, but that friendship, such as it was, I terminated for other reasons—the first time, perhaps ever, that I have deliberately terminated a friendship), should be considered dangerous sex offenders. I would, after all, prefer that they negotiate a fair price for sexual gratification than go out and steal it.

Considering the intended purpose of a sex offender registry, I cannot see the benefit of mucking up the list with so many names of people who, by and large, are not any more dangerous than our everyday liars.
 
Why are such politicians including Bill Clinton, David Vesper, and Senator Larry Craig not charged with sex crimes and forced to register as sex offenders as their actions are illegal in most states regardless of the age of their victim?

Because they are NOT sex crimes.

I dont know about Larry Craig did and i dont feel like looking it up so cant say about him.

Dont know about David Vesper either.
 
It's not illegal to cheat on your bitch of a wife. They did it because sex is good, you should try it sometime.
 
Raven is right, from Yahoo answers:

"No, in some states it can be illegal if certain criteria are met. There are some old laws on the books in some areas that can give a 'victim' the right to sue not only the cheater but also the one he/she cheated with. One such law is 'alienation of affection'. States that still have this law on the books are Hawaii, Illinois, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah. Most states see these laws as archaic and outdated and have abolished them. It's also not easy to prove as the complainant must be able to prove the marriage was on good terms to begin with and if one person is cheating that tends to suggest there were problems."
 
That's just cause for divorce. I don't think it was ever illegal in the United States, unless it involves sodomy.
 
I guess I needed to be a little clearer, In Bill Clintons case he had sex with an intern and government employee and he was definably in a position of power and authority, therefore in his situation there should be more that just adultery charges which I agree are archaic.

Clinton should have been impeached immediately for not only lying but abusing his power and having intimidated the intern but for also having sex on in a government office. Get real smoking is prohibited in all government building but sex isn’t? Both senators were involved with soliciting sex and engaged in sexual activity, prostitution and so forth and those crimes are is clearly illegal and sex offenses…..

Now to those who say we shouldn’t muck up our registries with people, who are not dangerous, I would agree completely, however tell that to the hundreds of people on the registries that are on there for simple sex crimes such as Romeo & Juliet offenses, or urinating in public, or other non violent crimes.

My point was simply why do these politicians seem to get off (No pun Intended) without any charges while the average Joe goes to jail and registers for life? ?????? In Bill Clinton’s case he was in a position of trust and authority just alike a teacher who teaches school and to say he didn’t abuse that authority would be wrong only because his victim was an adult.
 
No offense but you are a little confused. One thing that stands out is the sex registry for people who go to prostitutes is wrong...Afa i know.
 
Still, though ....

Oiram said:

My point was simply why do these politicians seem to get off (No pun Intended) without any charges while the average Joe goes to jail and registers for life? ?????? In Bill Clinton’s case he was in a position of trust and authority just alike a teacher who teaches school and to say he didn’t abuse that authority would be wrong only because his victim was an adult.

Still, it's a worthy turn of phrase.

As to the question itself, I think there is a difference between abuse of authority such as we might imply about Clinton and teachers who exploit their students. Specifically, if you're a high school teacher and sleep with a student, the difference between losing one's job and facing the registry is a matter of age. If your student is eighteen, you only face losing your job.

Monica Lewinsky, whatever else she may or may not have been, was certainly of age. Furthermore, the lack of any evidence of blackmail or other coercion undermines the proposition that the offense is registrable. We might then turn to the Paula Jones scandal, but in that case, I would refer you to a post I made a few months back about media bias: David Brock, formerly of The American Spectator, explained that the smear campaign in general (and a couple of scandals in specific) were baseless. As one of the chief muckrakers in those scandals, Brock necessarily demands certain consideration—if he is lying now, in retracting these stories, we might wonder why.

As for people whose names appear in the various registries for simple offenses, I would hope it is enough to say that I am not a fan of the registries in the first place. While I understand that the information can be useful, and that sex crimes are often of a certain, unique nature—e.g. seemingly singular dangers of recidivism—there are plenty of crimes that people likewise ought to be aware of. Why, for instance, is there no embezzlers' registry? Or fraud and identity theft registry? Or drug and alcohol registry?

But, for the most part, CEOs who harass their secretaries or whatever don't end up on the list unless some specific behavior—e.g., rape—warrants it. For the most part? Well, it is a matter of degrees. Did he try to feel up the girl in the mailroom? She might not think a drunken grope is a small thing, but if we stack such transgressions against more severe outcomes, we might render the idea of a sex offender registry futile while simultaneously admitting that sex crime is a deeply entrenched aspect of American culture, and I have no good ideas how address that disaster save for stuffing our Puritan tendencies and reconsidering our demonization of sexuality.
 
That's just cause for divorce. I don't think it was ever illegal in the United States, unless it involves sodomy.

Nope. If it is in the lawbooks under adultery, than it is illegal. That it almost never gets prosecuted because it is archaic that is another question....

Wiki is your friend, as always:

"In the United States, laws vary from state to state. In those States where adultery is still on the statute books, even though they are rarely prosecuted, the penalties vary from life sentence (Michigan), 2 years imprisonment (Pennsylvania), or a fine of $10 (Maryland). In the U.S. Military, adultery is a potential court-martial offense. The enforceability of adultery laws in the United States has been / is being questioned following Supreme Court decisions since 1965 relating to privacy and sexual intimacy of consenting adults, in cases such as Lawrence v. Texas."

In the military they do use it even nowadays....
 
Raven is right, from Yahoo answers:

"No, in some states it can be illegal if certain criteria are met. There are some old laws on the books in some areas that can give a 'victim' the right to sue not only the cheater but also the one he/she cheated with. One such law is 'alienation of affection'. States that still have this law on the books are Hawaii, Illinois, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah. Most states see these laws as archaic and outdated and have abolished them. It's also not easy to prove as the complainant must be able to prove the marriage was on good terms to begin with and if one person is cheating that tends to suggest there were problems."

Alienation of affection is a tort. It's not "illegal" (as in "a crime") to commit a tort, it's just that you may have to pay damages if sued. Some states do still have criminals laws against adultery on the books, but some states have criminal laws against using contraception on the books too. The latter is definitely not enforceable. Much like laws against sodomy, and pretty definitely if the reasoning of Lawrence v. Texas were applied directly, I'd expect laws against adultery to to be struck down if any prosecutor were to try to make use of them.

The tort, however, could remain. A private action for damages suffered is not the same as a criminal action, and doesn't raise the same constitutional problems. There are plenty of exercises of liberty that Congress and the States can't criminalize, that can be misused in a away that causes actual damages properly addressable in tort.

Clinton should have been impeached immediately for not only lying but abusing his power and having intimidated the intern but for also having sex on in a government office. Get real smoking is prohibited in all government building but sex isn’t?

I am not sure that it is. Even if it is generally, I am not sure that law covers the White House, since the White House is, in addition to being an office, also a residence. I'd be stunned if there were a law purporting to break the White House down (perhaps, for maximum comedic impact, room by room) saying where it was okay to have sex and where not. More likely, if there were a federal law at all, it would simply exclude "buildings used as residences."

That said, is sex in government buildings a big enough problem that it needs a law? Smoking is very much different, as nobody ever got cancer because someone nearby had sex. They might as well have laws forbidding the President for looking up the pr0n on the government computers.
 
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OK, the definition of illegal is if something is against the law. Now if adultery is in the lawbooks as a punishable offense, than it is fucking ILLEGAL by definition, no matter how archaic and not prosecutable.

Clear now???
 
OK, the definition of illegal is if something is against the law. Now if adultery is in the lawbooks as a punishable offense, than it is fucking ILLEGAL by definition, no matter how archaic and not prosecutable.

Clear now???

Didn't mean to agitate you.

What you say is somewhat debatable—it's not entirely clear it's true. There are laws in some states on the books forbidding me from engaging acts of sodomy with my girlfriend, including oral sex. There are laws on the books in many states purporting to criminalize abortion. Is abortion illegal in those states? No, because those laws are unenforceable as a matter of constitutional law. If the Supreme Court's cases on abortion are eventually overturned, those laws will suddenly become effective though.

Adultery is in the category where, if you read the Supremne Court's existing decisions, it looks very much like it can't be criminalized, but the Court never touched on the question directly. The most that can be said about adultery is that it *might* be illegal in some states where laws are officially on the books, and it might not.

In practice, no one uses these laws as the basis of a criminal action, so is it illegal? That's a question of semnatics. In New York City, there is a very old law on the books forbidding people from spitting on a public sidewalk. I don't think anyone thinks of it as "illegal" because that law is never enforced and few know about it. Whether people would use the term "illegal" to describe matters written into the laws, but that are bnever and will never be likely to be enforced "illegal" is a matter of personal taste. Some may want to draw a dostminction between the "really illegal" and the "nominally illegal." Other's may just say that latter are "not illegal" (i.e. "legal") in that they are not really being prohibited by the legal system.
 
I really enjoy posting on these threads as so many different views and opinions are raised, including points to my own purposed questions, such as the White house being classified as a residence, but would the Oral (Oops) Oval Office then be classified as a home office or would it be considered a government office as the presidential residence is always referred to as the residence. It would be different if Bill Clinton had had the sex in the residence, but even then we are splitting hairs, my point was that Bill Clinton was in a position of authority and power to abuse the Intern into a sexual relationship not so much where the sex occurred. It just made it worse that the sex occurred in the most powerful office in the world that even when built was designed to intimidate other foreign leaders with its sense of power.
 
It's just that it was the other way around. Because he was a powerful and charismatic man, Monica was attracted to him and threw herself at him. The real situation is the our presidents are engaged in way more dangerous behavior with international and constitutional implications, and we should be far more concerned with that than what they do with their private parts. In France, no one would think anything of it. We have inherited an infantile and puritannical attitude towards sex.

Half the freaking congress have cheated on their wives, it's no big deal.
 
Anyway, let's get over the legality issue and answer this:

let's say you are Obama and you have chosen Edwards as running mate. before that you asked him if he ever could be a liability to you and he clearly stated looking into your eyes that he could not.

Then this news comes out 2 weeks before the election and let's say you lose to McC by 1 %.

Now describe your feelings, hypotethically speaking of course...
 
It never seems to amaze me how such a family oriented, and nice looking person can turn out to shock and surprise me, in this case former Sen. John Edwards....
You're surprised that that snake oil sailsman, trial lawyer, politician scumbag John Edwards cheated on his wife while she was battling cancer? Really? I'd be surprised to find out he wasn't cheating on his wife.
 
It's just that it was the other way around. Because he was a powerful and charismatic man, Monica was attracted to him and threw herself at him. The real situation is the our presidents are engaged in way more dangerous behavior with international and constitutional implications, and we should be far more concerned with that than what they do with their private parts. In France, no one would think anything of it. We have inherited an infantile and puritannical attitude towards sex.

Half the freaking congress have cheated on their wives, it's no big deal.


Please read this post again and realize silly you sound.
Do you want your governing agents to be ever involved in personal catastrophy when trying to manage your life?

Beyond that, how strong and "powerful" is a man that can't resist a fling that would compromise their job. Neither man had anything to gain and everything to lose.
Hmmm, not very good decision making.

And if you want to get married to woman and throw her away when she gets sick, fine. But, please move to France where "no one thinks anything of it". And take your like minded politicians with you (congress is about twice the size it should be, anyway).
 
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