Joel Osteen

[Bowser]

I was flipping through the channels on television and ran across this guy who was talking about how people should be happy with who they are and not be envious of others, holding on to our passion and doing our best.

http://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/Index.aspx

I'm not a religious fellow, but I thought the guy was spot on. His religious twist was that god made us as we are for a purpose. Even if you reject the notion of a god, there's still a good message to be had.

 

[chimpkin]

He's a big proponent of the prosperity gospel...Here, in his own words:

“What would you think if I introduced our two children to you and they had holes in their clothes, uncombed hair, no shoes, and dirt under their fingernails? You’d probably say ‘That man is not a good father. He doesn’t take care of his children.’ Indeed, my children’s poverty would be a direct reflection on me as their dad. Similarly, when we go through life with a poverty mentality, it is not glorifying to God. It does not honor His great name. God is not pleased when we drag through life, defeated, depressed, perpetually discouraged by our circumstances. No, God is pleased when we develop a prosperous mind-set.” (1)

I believe that God's dream is that we be successful in our careers, and that we be able to send our kids to college. I don't mean that everyone is going to be rich, and I preach a lot on blooming where you're planted. But I don't have the mindset that money is a bad thing.

[My views] may go against some of the older, traditional teachings. But I think we should have a mindset that God wants us to prosper in our relationships, our health, and our finances. God's desire is that we excel. And we see business leaders who are good strong Christians running [big] companies. (2)

From the article:

Osteen teaches that the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ upon the cross of Calvary over 2000 years ago is a guarantee of earthly prosperity, health and divine blessings.

http://www.spiritwatch.org/firebehindsmile3of4.htm

My translation: you are sick, poor, or unfortunate...God does not like you. Maybe this is part of why we don't have universal healthcare...I mean, who are we to help you if God decreed you to be sick?

 

[Bowser]

My translation: you are sick, poor, or unfortunate...God does not like you. Maybe this is part of why we don't have universal healthcare...I mean, who are we to help you if God decreed you to be sick?

That's not what I read into it. He seems to be saying that success isn't a bad thing, and that we should strive for success in whatever we do. But I, too, could be reading more into it than I should.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Success breeds contempt and those who are successful usually get that way from stepping on many other people to attain their own goals.

 

[Ophiolite]

Success breeds contempt and those who are successful usually get that way from stepping on many other people to attain their own goals.

I imagine that worldview must be very comforting for you in your failure.

 

[cosmictraveler]

I imagine that worldview must be very comforting for you in your failure.

Why do you think I've failed? Some people enjoy putting others down to make themselves feel good, is that why you say such things? How many have you stepped on, besides me, to make yourself feel important? :shrug:

 

[Ophiolite]

Why do you think I've failed?

I deduced it from these ill informed remarks:

Success breeds contempt and those who are successful usually get that way from stepping on many other people to attain their own goals.

The majority of successful people I know, either personally, or through the media, are anything but contemptuous. They recognise that their success is predicated upon the efforts and contributions of others. They want others to succeed because they no that success is addititve, even exponential.

Success of one person does not mean failure of another, quite the reverse. There are some individuals who behave as you describe, but they are in a minority.

What I have observed is that there are those who are all too ready to ascribe their personal failure to others, rather than to their own inadequacies. Your rather bitter post smacked of exactly that attitude.

Some people enjoy putting others down to make themselves feel good, is that why you say such things?

I haven't put you down. You have implicitly put yourself down. I call it as I see it. You feel that is acceptable for you, why would you condemn it in someone else?

? How many have you stepped on, besides me, to make yourself feel important? :shrug:

I haven't stepped on you. If I wanted to make myself feel important I certainly wouldn't get there by stepping on you. What makes me feel important is helping other people maximise their potential. If that includes pointing out when they are talking bollocks, then so be it.

 

[cosmictraveler]

The majority of successful people I know, either personally, or through the media, are anything but contemptuous. They recognise that their success is predicated upon the efforts and contributions of others. They want others to succeed because they no that success is addititve, even exponential.

Then you don't know many of the people that I've read about, worked with or heard about. Since I've seemed to have encountered more of the type I was referring to I thought my remark, since it was mine, would be shedding light on only what I have known or heard about not your viewpoint.

Success of one person does not mean failure of another, quite the reverse. There are some individuals who behave as you describe, but they are in a minority.

No it doesn't and that's not what I said either. I said that

Success breeds contempt and those who are successful usually get that way from stepping on many other people to attain their own goals.

And that means that many people use others in different ways to attain their own goals which never implies that those who are stepped upon fail but just don't succeed as far in their goals as those who use others do. So instead of becomming a CEO those who never attain that position could easily be a supervisor or manager instead which isn't a bad position but not the top position.

What I have observed is that there are those who are all too ready to ascribe their personal failure to others, rather than to their own inadequacies. Your rather bitter post smacked of exactly that attitude.

Sorry you took it that way for you didn't get my drift. I will state again that many people who attain success will USE others, MANIPULATE others and STEP on others to achieve what they want. Brown nosing, lying, cheating and underhanded tricks are what I've seen happen with "successful " type of individuals which are happening everywhere you turn these days, just look at Enron, Goldman Sachs and on and on.

I haven't put you down. You have implicitly put yourself down.

By saying,

I imagine that worldview must be very comforting for you in your failure,

that is, to me, a put down but to you it must be a build up. If that's your idea of being helpful and understanding then I'd think your way of seeing the world is twisted in ways that you must not be able to address.

I haven't stepped on you. If I wanted to make myself feel important I certainly wouldn't get there by stepping on you.

But alas you did by saying,

I imagine that worldview must be very comforting for you in your failure,

you are trying to show others that I somehow have failed with my life to which you don't support that statement with any fact or proof as to how you can say such nonsense.

 

[S.A.M.]

I was flipping through the channels on television and ran across this guy who was talking about how people should be happy with who they are and not be envious of others, holding on to our passion and doing our best.

http://www.joelosteen.com/Pages/Index.aspx

I'm not a religious fellow, but I thought the guy was spot on. His religious twist was that god made us as we are for a purpose. Even if you reject the notion of a god, there's still a good message to be had.

I've watched quite a few of his sermons and enjoyed them all. I like his attitude to preaching about life and God. Its very positive - my favourite one was where he preached on the power to retain control of your feelings. I thought that was very insightful

He's a big proponent of the prosperity gospel...Here, in his own words:


From the article:

http://www.spiritwatch.org/firebehindsmile3of4.htm

My translation: you are sick, poor, or unfortunate...God does not like you. Maybe this is part of why we don't have universal healthcare...I mean, who are we to help you if God decreed you to be sick?

I haven't seen any evidence that religious leaders in the US are opposed to universal healthcare. Quite the reverse, actually

 

[Ripley]

The majority of successful people I know, either personally, or through the media, are anything but contemptuous. They recognise that their success is predicated upon the efforts and contributions of others. They want others to succeed because they no that success is addititve, even exponential.

Businessmen with a good conscience. Priceless.

 

[chimpkin]

Businessmen with a good conscience. Priceless.

Certainly rare.