Jesus was a Socialist revolutionary !

B

Brian Foley

REFUSE - RESIST
Valued Senior Member
Jesus fought for justice to the poor , the poor to him were deprived of their dignity and would be special objects of God’s justice and the rich the objects of Gods vengeance . Jesus allied himself with the suppressed, the oppressed, and the repressed. He bore their curse and experienced their rejection at the hands of the rich . In trying to bring justice to the poor he died a degrading death he was so much on the side of the poor that he became such Himself. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He Was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His Poverty might be rich. 2 Corinthians 8.9 . And so it shall be Christianity is a revolutionary Socialist doctrine designed for the people the greatest enemy of Christianity is the rich . There is a special fitting end for those that are rich .
He will bring Justice to the poor of the people; He will save the children of the needy, and will break in pieces the oppressor.
Psalm 72.1-4
 
That seems like a real stretch. Although he threw the money-changers and merchants out of the temple, where it is obviously innapropriate for them to be, I don't think Jesus was specifically against being rich. I think he was more concerned about inner richness. The vengeful revolutionary just doesn't seem to fit with his peaceful personality. Christians did gather donations, and use them to help the poor, but is this really socialism, or more similar to a voluntary public welfare system? Why are/were socialist countries officially atheist, and capitalistic countries largely christian?
 
spidergoat said:
That seems like a real stretch. Although he threw the money-changers and merchants out of the temple, where it is obviously innapropriate for them to be, I don't think Jesus was specifically against being rich. I think he was more concerned about inner richness. The vengeful revolutionary just doesn't seem to fit with his peaceful personality. Christians did gather donations, and use them to help the poor, but is this really socialism, or more similar to a voluntary public welfare system? Why are/were socialist countries officially atheist, and capitalistic countries largely christian?
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M*W: Good observation! I always despised the collection part of the mass, not that I was cheap or broke, it just seemed wrong, and they always played that solemn music with the lights down like it was a spiritual thing. I never saw it that way. Although I do believe in the spirituality of sharing one's soul with another--with the universe.
 
spidergoat said:
Although he threw the money-changers and merchants out of the temple, where it is obviously innapropriate for them to be, ...
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Obviously? Rubbish. The Jerusalem Temple was huge and its responsibilities variegated. People would, for example, purchase animals for sacrifice at the Temple rather than schlepp them from miles away. What you have in John is a sorry piece of anti-Jewish polemic written many decades afterward by the most anti-Jewish of the story-tellers.
 
Please ... if Jesus was a socialist revolutionary, then the Penateuch is an early Mein Kampf.
 
StarOfEight said:
Please ... if Jesus was a socialist revolutionary, then the Penateuch is an early Mein Kampf.
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M*W: How can you say that? Jesus, a socialist? Jesus was an example of humanity as we know it. There is nothing socialisic about it. We are all the One Spirit of God.
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I hate jesus. He sure was influential though. It seems more athiests follow his teachings than christians do.
And they are proud of it!! :confused:

I hate him and everything he stood for, absolutely.
He preached shame, shame and how to's like he was god or something, 'do this do that, don't do this don't do that' ahhh how about you get fucked jesus?

There was nothing wrong with our animal instincts, we had no reason to be ashamed of them. If we were never convinced to be ashamed of them the world would be in excellent condition today. I fucking hate jesus.
 
From each, to each - Acts according to Al Franken

Just a note from Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars That Tell Them:

• The Story So Far - Our hero, mingling at the White House Correspondents Dinner, asks Don Evans about a Newsweek article describing part of President Bush's rebirth as an evangelical Christian. The article said that Bush and Evans had taken part in a "scriptural boot camp," a yearlong study of Luke, both the Acts and then his Gospel. Franken precedes his conversation with Evans as follows:
Now, I'm a Jew. And I grew up knowing zip about the New Testament and still know next to zip. But as it so happened, a few days before the Correspondents' Dinner, I ran into economist Paul Solman at the Harvard gym. Paul, who teaches a course in business ethics, is also a Jew, but an educated one. So he knows the Bible. He, too, had read Fineman's cover story.

He told me he found it ironic that Acts was one of the two books Bush and Evans had studied. Acts, Paul told me, is Luke's account of the formation of the Church after Jesus' death. The book is almost a socialist tract, full of admonishment to the rich to share their wealth with the poor. The communist motto, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," is derived from Acts 4.32-35 . . . . (pp. 213-14)
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Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that note in. It seems to mesh well with the topic.
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• Franken, Al. Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them. New York: Dutton, 2003.
 
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Medicine Woman said:
M*W: How can you say that? Jesus, a socialist? Jesus was an example of humanity as we know it. There is nothing socialisic about it. We are all the One Spirit of God.
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Easy if you read the N.T properly you can see all the anti-rich verses , besides I have presented verses from the N.T which lead to that conclusion .
 
Dr Lou Natic said:
I hate jesus. He sure was influential though. It seems more athiests follow his teachings than christians do.
And they are proud of it!! :confused:

I hate him and everything he stood for, absolutely.
He preached shame, shame and how to's like he was god or something, 'do this do that, don't do this don't do that' ahhh how about you get fucked jesus?

There was nothing wrong with our animal instincts, we had no reason to be ashamed of them. If we were never convinced to be ashamed of them the world would be in excellent condition today. I fucking hate jesus.
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I am just telling these fools who think they are Christian on this site who Jesus really was . Besides you have the intelligence to think as an individual so I think you can appreciate my thread .
 
tiassa said:
Just a note from Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars That Tell Them:

• The Story So Far - Our hero, mingling at the White House Correspondents Dinner, asks Don Evans about a Newsweek article describing part of President Bush's rebirth as an evangelical Christian. The article said that Bush and Evans had taken part in a "scriptural boot camp," a yearlong study of Luke, both the Acts and then his Gospel. Franken precedes his conversation with Evans as follows:Anyway, I just thought I'd throw that note in. It seems to mesh well with the topic.
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• Franken, Al. Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them. New York: Dutton, 2003.
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Thanks tiassa a very constructive reply and a good compliment too the thread .
 
Perhaps the oddest site I've come across so far: Anglo-Catholic Socialism.

It's in there ... I promise: The Origin and Meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance.

A possible counterpoint: Was Jesus a libertarian? (This article, however, bears some erroneous considerations.)

From Brainyquote (and I'll put the quote here to save the click):

"Jesus was the first socialist, the first to seek a better life for mankind."

(Mikhail S. Gorbachev)​

And, lastly, for now: Socialism Defined and Contrasted to Christianity
 
@tiassa
Thanks for those links I had one link I have lost it was an Anarchist/Christian site probaly disappeared . What are good about these fringe sites is that they have the courage to explore Christianity outside the confines of the plutocratic propaganda of the organized church . As Jesus said if you look gor me I will let you find me .
 
ConsequentAtheist said:
That was truly stupid.
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Yeah, there's a huge difference between massacring people to gain lebensraum and massacring people to gain the the Promised Land. Huge difference between the Pentateuch's fanatical obsession with racial purity and Hitler's fanatical obsession with racial purity. Huge difference between Hitler urging genocide against the Jews, and God carrying out genocide against the Egyptians. Yeah, the two have absolutely nothin' in common.
 
But what about people obeying God's orders?

and God carrying out genocide against the Egyptians.
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There's also the Amalekites.

The Jewish Virtual Library, I admit, cracks me up on this one. It includes the phrase, "The Israelites, under the leadership of Joshua, later avenged the attack and defeated the Amalekites, but failed to completely eradicate the nation."

The Amalekites are named for Amalek, a grandson of Esau.°

After Joshua avenged the attack against the Jews and broke the ranks of Amalek and his men, "God said to Moses, 'Write this as a reminder in the Book and repeat it carefully to Joshua. I will totally obliterate the memory of Amalek from under the heavens.'" (Exodus 17.14)

God reiterates, later: "Therefore, when God gives you peace from all the enemies around you in the land that God your Lord is giving you to occupy as a heritage, you must obliterate the memory of Amalek from under the heavens. You must not forget." (Deuteronomy 25.19)

And God most certainly does not forget. In 1 Samuel, chapter 15, Saul is told that God is prepared to finish the old score with the Amaelkites (15.2), and commands their destruction: ". . . 'Now go and smite Am'alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'" (15.3)

And so Saul sets out to do just that. (15.4-5) And indeed he defeats the Amalekites after allowing the Kenites to escape the wrath of God, which is all well and fine with God. But Saul, after having "utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword," (15.6-8) spares King Agag and the best of the sheep (15.9), whereupon Samuel receives communication from God. (15.10)

God tells Samuel that he repents having made Saul king; Saul has turned his back on God and not performed His commandments. (15.11)

What commandment has Saul violated?

First, Saul and his troops have taken the prize sheep of the Amalekites, which God ordered destroyed. (15.12-25) Samuel informs Saul that his kingship has been repented by God (15.26)

And then Samuel finishes the work of the Lord and destroys Agag--hacking him to pieces (15.33)--before returning to Ramah.

From beginning to end, the war encompassed centuries.

Some links discussing the Amalekite episode:

• "Then Came Amalek" - see http://lampbroadcast.org/RFAP3.html
• "Was the Amalekite Massacre a Moral Atrocity?" - see http://www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/christ/bible_amalekite.htm
• "Good question ... shouldn't the butchering of the Amalekite children be considered war crimes? - see http://www.christian-thinktank.com/rbutcher1.html

It's also worth noting that while hopping around Google, I came across an article from Christians for Action in Israel. The article deals with Israeli elections, and is four years old. But a curious line sticks out: "From the moment that Prime Minister Barak joined himself to this false process and went to Camp David to meet the Amalekite leader, Arafat, he lost his power exactly as happened to King Saul when he saved and had pity on the cruel murdering king of the Amalekites."

Traditions die hard.
And, in the process of destroying the Amalekites, God brought matters to pass after such a fashion that archaeologists and historians today can find no trace in the secular world of this once mighty nation. They exist on the pages of Scripture alone. This is how completely and thoroughly God brought matters to pass concerning their destruction. The Amalekites have literally been put out of remembrance from under heaven, exactly as God stated they would be. (Chitwood, "Then Came Amalek")
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Notes:

° grandson of Esau - see the "Navigating the Bible II" glossary references to Adah and Amalek/Amalekites, and also Rabbi Israel Chait, as transcribed by students, on "The Personality of Esau."

Reference Notes:

• Jewish Virtual Library. "The Amalekites." See http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/Amalek.html
• Navigating the Bible II Glossary - see http://bible.ort.org/books/glosd1.asp
• Chait, Rabbi Israel (transcript). "The Personality of Esau" - see http://www.mesora.org/esau.html
• The Pentateuch, "Exodus ch. 17" - see http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?action=displayanchor&pentid=P1992#P1992
• The Pentateuch, "Deuteronomy ch. 25" - see http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?action=displayanchor&pentid=P5561#P5561
• The Bible, Revised Standard Version. "1 Samuel" - see http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/Rsv1Sam.html
• Christians for Action in Israel. "Elections in Israel - a Godly end-time event." November 30, 2000 - see http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/endtime.html
• Chitwood, Arlen L. "Then Came Amalek" - see http://lampbroadcast.org/RFAP3.html
 
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