Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

W

WildBlueYonder

Guest
Dear Sciforumites, or is it Sciforumidians?
you seem to go back & forth, flailing away, trying to come to grips with an urge to understand so many questions:
"who am I?"
"why am I here?"
"why do we exist?"
"who made everything?"

so I'll start to answer with these 3 thoughts:
1) to better understand yourself & the world around you, go back to the bedrock of faith, the owner's manual for humanity, the Bible
2) I find it hilarious that the gatekeepers of this religious forum are apparently atheists, something akin to letting me edit the "American Atheist Standard Journal of Discourses & Philosophical Thoughts & Ramblings", wouldn't it be at least more fair, if the person assigned was agnostic & non-committal, instead of openly hostile?
3) here's a Bible verse that you all may find edifying;
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Sower
1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow.
4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them.
5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth.
6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them.
8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
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from:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&version=50
 
1) to better understand yourself & the world around you, go back to the bedrock of faith, the owner's manual for humanity, the Bible
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1) Why the bible exactly? Why not one of the countless other ancient texts in existence - or, and surely more pertinent to state, why not go back to the source of the bible, (earlier Sumerian texts)?

2) Things progress forwards - they don't progress backwards. As a result, it seems pointless to come to an understanding of the world around us from those that didn't understand the world around us. If you want a better understanding of the world around us, try a science book.

3) A book is not an indication of truth, it is merely a proposal of it. As an unavoidable result of that, the book cannot be used as evidence or confirmation of the proposal contained therein. The only way to establish 'truth' is to test the proposals. If one cannot test the proposals, the proposals are kinda worthless. Alas as we know, biblical proposals cannot be tested - thus they're inherently worthless to us.

2) I find it hilarious that the gatekeepers of this religious forum are apparently atheists
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It's a science forum. Of course one can have an interest in ancient cultures and religion without having to believe in gods - kind of like how I have an interest in Star Trek but don't believe Klingons exist.

wouldn't it be at least more fair, if the person assigned was agnostic & non-committal, instead of openly hostile?
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I assume you're talking about both sides? (there should be no atheists or theists, just agnostics). If my assumption is wrong, what 'fairness' do you think there is or would be?

3) here's a Bible verse that you all may find edifying
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Here's an LotR passage that you might find interesting:

"I think really Bilbo preferred slipping off quietly in the end," said Gandalf,
"Don't be too troubled. He'll be all right now. He left a packet for you.
There it is!"
Frodo took the envelope from the mantelpiece, and glanced at it,
but did not open it.
"You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think,"
said the wizard.
"You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."

:shrug:
 
SnakeLord said:
it seems pointless to come to an understanding of the world around us from those that didn't understand the world around us. If you want a better understanding of the world around us, try a science book.
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Use the right tool for the right job...understanding the world around us first and foremost relates to our interactions with our fellows...the Bible is not a book dealing in science per se, it is a book that deals with/is a study in relationship . First with God, then with your fellow man. It acurately diagnoses/depicts those problems that beset the human heart and provides the only Answer to those problems i.e. repentance towards God and faith in your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

SnakeLord said:
Alas as we know, biblical proposals cannot be tested - thus they're inherently worthless to us.
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False. The Biblical proposals can be tested. For example, the following verse from Romans: For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.

This straighforward proposal can certainly be tested provided one has the requisite courage to be brutally honest with oneself, others, and God. The end result ideally, is to recognise not only your condition before God (in need of a Savior) but His Provision in light of your condition, again, Jesus Christ.
 
the Bible is not a book dealing in science per se, it is a book that deals with/is a study in relationship
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The same statement applies. If you want a book about relationships there's many to choose from - indeed many written by professional doctors, psychologists, counsellors etc instead of shepherds. Here's a starting place:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1...elationships&rh=n:1000,k:Relationships&page=1

Biblical relationships? Such as: stone witches, prostitutes, naughty children and gay people to death, have the decency of marrying your slave if you bonk her, if your brother dies do the decent thing and impregnate his wife etc etc etc. A study in relationships heh? I'd advise people to listen to Dr Phil over the bible any day of the week.

It acurately diagnoses/depicts those problems that beset the human heart and provides the only Answer to those problems
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Clearly, given the above link as just a small example and the mass of alternate ancient texts, you're wrong.

This straighforward proposal can certainly be tested provided one has the requisite courage to be brutally honest with oneself, others, and God.
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Strike 1. No test was conducted to see if a god, (and your specific god), exist. The proposal is worthless.

Better luck next time.
 
SnakeLord said:
Strike 1. No test was conducted to see if a god, (and your specific god), exist. The proposal is worthless.
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No test is necessary "to see if a god, (and your specific god)," exists:

what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

At that time when you give an account of yourself before God, every excuse/explanation concocted for your infidelity and disobedience will be struck down by the Word of God:

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath One that judgeth him: The Word that I have spoken (The Bible), the same shall judge him in the last day...

There is no wisdom, understanding, or advice that can succeed against the Lord


SnakeLord said:
Better luck next time.
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There will be no "next time" regarding exchanges between you and I.

FYI: He who is often reproved, yet stiffens his neck,will suddenly be broken beyond healing.
 
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No test is necessary "to see if a god, (and your specific god)," exists
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I'm afraid you're wrong, and ancient text is certainly not going to help your case.. because, as mentioned, text/a book is not a confirmation of truth, it is merely a proposal of it.

You can't assert that something exists and then use a book that says it does as confirmation of its existence. To think that one can is simple idiocy.

There will be no "next time" regarding exchanges between you and I.
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I see. No interest in debate or discussion, just interested in preaching heh? It seems you have joined the wrong forum. Do us all a favour, including yourself, and find a more suitable one.
 
SnakeLord said:
1)2) Things progress forwards - they don't progress backwards.
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Tell me, if you are standing at the edge of a cliff, which direction would constitute "progress" in your mind?
A step forward, or a step backwards?
 
WildBlueYonder said:
trying to come to grips with an urge to understand so many questions:
"who am I?"
"why am I here?"
"why do we exist?"
"who made everything?"
Click to expand...

These questions, while intriguing, aren't a priority with me. Sorry.

so I'll start to answer with these 3 thoughts:
1) to better understand yourself & the world around you, go back to the bedrock of faith, the owner's manual for humanity, the Bible
Click to expand...

This is a fallacious statement. Just because this book of mythology is your bedrock of faith and, perhaps, your "owner's manual, it doesn't follow that it is to the remainder of humanity. One could argue it is complete and utter bigotry to assume that Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, Navajo, and the Fulani of West Africa require your mythical perspective on life and that their own is less valid.

2) I find it hilarious that the gatekeepers of this religious forum are apparently atheists, something akin to letting me edit the "American Atheist Standard Journal of Discourses & Philosophical Thoughts & Ramblings", wouldn't it be at least more fair, if the person assigned was agnostic & non-committal, instead of openly hostile?
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It would be asinine since this is a science forum first and foremost, thus reason and logic as well as scientific naturalism are the norm here. And it is scientific naturalism that informs my atheism. I don't subscribe to scientific naturalism, logic and reason because I'm an atheist after all. If you want deluded and credulous moderators for a religion section, the internet is a big place. I'm sure you'll find it.

But "openly hostile" is exactly what is needed when facing the deluded nonsense of religious superstition. Because it is that very religious superstition that is interfering with so many aspects of modern life and progress, particularly in science. This ranges from stem cell research to fighting HIV/AIDS to global warming (though much less with this lately). The reasoned minds of scientific naturalism should have a venue where they can be openly critical of religious dogma, superstition and delusion. You call it "hostile." I call it fair criticism. If you don't like it, the internet is a big place. I'm sure there's a place to suit your needs.

3) here's a Bible verse that you all may find edifying;
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The poetry was mediocre but somewhat inspiring. I didn't find it "edifying" in the least when compared with much better works by authors like Feynman, Sagan, Melville, Robert Frost, Whitman, etc.

This appears to be yet another thread created by the religiously deluded designed to proselytize to the heathen masses at sciforums. You wanted responses.... be careful what you wish for.
 
Tell me, if you are standing at the edge of a cliff, which direction would constitute "progress" in your mind?
A step forward, or a step backwards?
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Well, if some people took a step forwards it would certainly be progress.

But being serious for a moment, I don't think stepping off a cliff is reallya pertinent example.
 
That is one of my favorite parables of Yeshua; for me it reffers on how spreading the truth can be understood (truth = seed).
 
Celpha Fiael said:
Jesus has been insensitively exclusionary of the deaf! Tisk tisk.
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He healed them and made them hear.

Again, departing from the region of Tyre and Sidon, He came through the midst of the region of Decapolis to the Sea of Galilee. Then they brought to Him one who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech, and they begged Him to put His hand on him. And He took him aside from the multitude, and put His fingers in his ears, and He spat and touched his tongue. Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him, “Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.”
Immediately his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue was loosed, and he spoke plainly. Then He commanded them that they should tell no one; but the more He commanded them, the more widely they proclaimed it. And they were astonished beyond measure, saying, “He has done all things well. He makes both the deaf to hear and the mute to speak.”

(Mark 7:31-37)

Tisk tisk
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
He healed them and made them hear.

Again, departing from the region of Tyre and Sidon, He came through the midst of the region of Decapolis to the Sea of Galilee. Then they brought to Him one who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech, and they begged Him to put His hand on him. And He took him aside from the multitude, and put His fingers in his ears, and He spat and touched his tongue. Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him, “Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.”
Immediately his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue was loosed, and he spoke plainly. Then He commanded them that they should tell no one; but the more He commanded them, the more widely they proclaimed it. And they were astonished beyond measure, saying, “He has done all things well. He makes both the deaf to hear and the mute to speak.”

(Mark 7:31-37)

Tisk tisk
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Apparently you didn't catch my flippant tone. Even so, fixing something you are responsible for making in need of healing in the first place sure is praiseworthy, huh?
 
Celpha Fiael said:
Apparently you didn't catch my flippant tone. Even so, fixing something you are responsible for making in need of healing in the first place sure is praiseworthy, huh?
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Who told you that Jesus was God? I surely didn´t.
Jesus was just a seed who flourished, just as we have the potential of doing.
 
WildBlueYonder said:
Dear Sciforumites, or is it Sciforumidians?
you seem to go back & forth, flailing away, trying to come to grips with an urge to understand so many questions:
"who am I?"
"why am I here?"
"why do we exist?"
"who made everything?"
Click to expand...
not me I have all the answers! :p
perhaps its YOU who is confused about life?
so I'll start to answer with these 3 thoughts:
1) to better understand yourself & the world around you, go back to the bedrock of faith, the owner's manual for humanity, the Bible
Click to expand...
faith means believing in something that dont exist,its NOT what Id care to live by
faith is for brainwashed morrons who cant think for themselves,
www.thewaronfaith.com
2) I find it hilarious that the gatekeepers of this religious forum are apparently atheists, something akin to letting me edit the "American Atheist Standard Journal of Discourses & Philosophical Thoughts & Ramblings", wouldn't it be at least more fair, if the person assigned was agnostic & non-committal, instead of openly hostile?
Click to expand...
hey if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen
science stands for reason,logic...scary huh?
3) here's a Bible verse that you all may find edifying;

from:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&version=50
Click to expand...
and heres the buyBULL you may need to read and think about!
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
 
one_raven said:
He's right.
Jesus never claimed to be God.
That was an invention by the early church founders and apologists.
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Oh I don't deny that he never did, though I'm undecided on the matter. But some on this board would say that he did, and it is to those that my comments would be directed towards.
 
Celpha Fiael said:
Oh I don't deny that he never did, though I'm undecided on the matter. But some on this board would say that he did, and it is to those that my comments would be directed towards.
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When a person become empty of ego, energy starts flowing naturally. The person become like an empty musical instrument, on which God blows the tones.

In other words, when Jesus said that he was God, like when he said: "I Am the way the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by Me.".
It was God speaking through him, he couldn´t control what he was saying, it was comming out of him like fragance comes out of a flower...

That doesn´t mean that he patented the stuff man, it just means that we all have the potential of doing the same; to become one with our real purpose in life, to become one with existence in order to part take in higher plans that we currently don´t understand.

"Let thy kingdom come"
 
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