Jesus, man or myth?

Krina,

Lets see....

1)Millions of children believe in Santa Claus
2)Millions of Children recieve gifts every year and are told that the gifts come from Santa Claus
3)The North Pole is a real place
4)Millions of children will verify the existance of Santa

therefore Santa Claus is real....I see no difference in that argument to the one you copied and pasted. Both arguments are based entirley on the assumption that the person/diety/whatever exists and the acceptance of both arguments depends entirley on the ignorance of the intended audience, further both arguments are made without actualy stating any objective facts or references accepted by a a wider audience.

Thanks for responding though I thought everyone was gonna bury their heads in the sand.
 
Krina,

These three great facts--the resurrection appearances, the empty tomb, and the origin of the Christian faith--all point unavoidably to one conclusion: The resurrection of Jesus.
Click to expand...

By the way, rather than taking up a lot of unnecessary space here, you could simply link to the original article, like so:


<font color="red"><A HREF="http://www.origins.org/truth/1truth22.html">Contemporary Scholarship and the Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ</A></font>

Anyway, according to all the evidence I've seen, the Christian faith had its origins in Pagan mythology. So how does an empty tomb prove Jesus was resurrected, when it cannot be proven that he ever really existed in the first place (except in the minds of the writers/plagiarists)? Does my empty wallet prove that I have lots of money in the bank? It's a non sequitur.

Blessings,

Emerald

------------------
An ye harm none, do what ye will.
 
A book all of you might want to read is The Jesus Mysteries. I forget who wrote it, but I saw it at Barnes & Noble (while picking up my copy of the bible code :)). It looked really interesting. The point of the book was to prove that Jesus was a collection of Pagan myths. Should be an interesting read, if nothing else.
 
You guys are all posting what seems to be your opinoin. Well, here are the facts according to Proffessor Ray DeBruler. Yes, children I took a history class too. Firstly I would like to point out that misias could be found at any street corner during this age. That is accepted. To Prove that Jesus existed without a doubt is not possible. Due to the fact that there is an astonishing lack of reliable evidence due to the fact that factual HISTORY was not recorded until the Doomsday Book. Which makes the other writtings stories, yes I'm calling the bible a story. I'm also calling ever other writting a story. The difference when it comes to using the bible as a reliable source to prove existance is that it has nothing to back it up except other religous books. Whereas writting by the romans although they could be exremely exagerated are taken more seriously because they were written BY THE ROMANS and the romans left something of themselves behind, the collusium for instance. Nothing was left for us that was the actual saying of jesus nor did he leave anything to prove his existance.
A Brief history lesson:
The bible consists of only four gospels when over 100 were spoken. Four were chosen by the Apocolypic jews to be recorded and published. Discrediting the widely known belief that the Bible is the end all be all of the Earth. Instead, in a history class we learn that if a man by the name of Jesus existed, then he was of Zelot (type of jew for those of you that don't know) background, although he became know as an Apocolyptic Jew. He was tried for teason and punished according to law. A group known as the Essenes (a mystery cult when speaking historically) were responsible for speading a rumor that Jesus is not dead. The probablity that a man existed that was acclaimed a masia, tried to a cross, and killed is very likely. For there were many "masias" that were collected by a leader by the name of Pontus charged with treason and killed. However, that a man called Jesus actually existed can neither be proven nor disproven. Children, I must say that it all comes down to a matter of faith.
 
"Children, I must say that it all comes down to a matter of faith."

Despite the condescending nature of your post, it really only backs my point. Yes, there is no way to prove without a doubt that Jesus existed, nor is there a way to prove he didn’t. Of course, the same can be said for many other mythical heroes, Hercules for example. You can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hercules did or didn’t exist, though there is little reason to suspect he did. I make this same claim, that there is little reason to suspect Jesus actually existed.
 
The difference between the Bible and most other stories is that the Bible actually has history in it.

The reason we know so much about the "Cradle of civillization" is because of the bible. Archaeologists went out seeking proof of the biblical stories - and they found it.

Many of the great wars, empires, kings, and tragedies recorded in the bible (excluding the first five books of the bible) have all been verified by science.

My point in all of this is that you cannot just dismiss the bible as a story. You may not believe in god, but the simple fact is that there is some actual history in the bible.

My second point is for Rambler. You used Santa Claus as an example of a mythical character. The only problem with this is that there really WAS a St. Nicholas, who was transformed into a character of mythical proportions.

How is Santa Claus then different from Jesus being a real person who was transformed to mythical proportions?
 
Corp,
There is little difference thanks for making my point clearer. There may have even been a man called Joe Blow that did some extraodinary things and his deeds together with other (most likely -- I would think) spawned the myth of Jesus.

On a slight tangent:
It would be laughable to see an adult of sound mind waiting for Santa at christmas time or sending their own wish list off to the northpole, yet when people have conversatiions with Jesus few people see it as out of the oridnary.
 
well, bub. It is just a story. Tons of stories, narritives, articles of fiction that have SOME historical value exist. That is by your definition of history, almost every book has historical value. for instance, in A Seperate Peace, which we all know is a work of fiction. Schools for boys really did exist and there really was a war. That however; does not mean that the boys were real people nor that anything that was written in that book is factual excluding the references to the time period. How is the Bible any different from other STORIES? Simply because so many people believe in it because they were taught to or because they have faith? If so that is a poor reason indeed. There really is no need to argue the point any further. Even you must admit that it eventually comes down to a matter of faith.

Oh, and Rambler have you ever given thought that maybe it's not so silly to wait for Santa Clause though the real St. Nicholas is long dead. Afterall, you think that it's not silly to pray to someting that cannot be proven to have existed let alone existed and died and risen again. What makes Jesus different from other beliefs like Santa Clause? FAITH, that's what. As a child, you didn't think it silly that you waited for Santa Clause, did you? Why didn't you think that was silly? Because you believed because you had faith that he would come.

[This message has been edited by angel (edited October 06, 2000).]
 
Angel,

Originally posted by angel:
well, bub. It is just a story.
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Who's "bub"?

Oh, and Rambler have you ever given thought that maybe it's not so silly to wait for Santa Clause though the real St. Nicholas is long dead. Afterall, you think that it's not silly to pray to someting that cannot be proven to have existed let alone existed and died and risen again. What makes Jesus different from other beliefs like Santa Clause?
Click to expand...

I'm confused, Angel. Why are you taking on an argumentative tone with someone who's own arguments you are simply reiterating? :confused:

Blessings,

Emerald

------------------
An ye harm none, do what ye will.
 
I believe bub is short for bubby, which wouod mean child, baby, infant whatever.

Angel,

Oh wise old one....what's your point????

[This message has been edited by Rambler (edited October 08, 2000).]
 
As far as history is concerned, I was referring to most of the old testament, which is devoted to describing Jewish history, and goes into great detail about the kings and rulers of the times.

Many of the wars, kings, kingdoms, and empires described in the Old Testament have been independtly verified by archaeology.
 
I have one more thing I would like to add to this: In December, 1945, there was discovered in upper Egypt a group of 52 Gnostic scrolls that dated from about 148 A.D. These first scrolls tell about the conflicting doctrines and the uncertainty in early Christianity.

In 1947 there was another unbelievable discovery. In Qumran, on the shore of the Dead Sea about 15 miles from Jerusalem, another great number of ancient scrolls were discovered. These scrolls are known as "the Dead Sea Scrolls." The impression given the public was that there were only a few scrolls found, just those found in the first cave. But there have been discovered hundreds of scrolls, these scrolls are about a thousand years older than any previously known copy of the Bible, and they contain all of the books of the Old Testament except Esther. There are also other scrolls that date almost a hundred years before Jesus of Nazareth is said to have lived. They contain almost every myth in the New Testament; they contain "The sermon on the Mount", and other bits of goodness and wisdom attributed to Jesus. They do not contain the evil sayings of Jesus. Those have been added later.

These old scrolls simply destroy the credibility of the historical foundations of Christianity by proving the New Testament evolved from the uninspired, historical, writings of man. These scrolls have not been honestly presented to the public. It is strange that what God seeks so forcefully to reveal, the men of God are so determined to conceal!


That is all.
 
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