Jealousy and indifference in marriage deemed illegal in Mexican marriages.

[Bells]

Mexico, in a bid to reduce the level of domestic violence have decided to tackle the problem from a different perspective. Domestic violence is purported to result in 75% of the deaths of women in Mexico.

Men who phone their wives every half hour to check up on them, constantly suspect them of infidelity or try to control the way they dress are committing the crime of jealousy, special prosecutor Alicia Elena Perez Duarte told Excelsior newspaper.

Those who stop talking to their wives, avoid sex or try to convince suspicious spouses they are "crazy" even if they are caught red-handed having an affair, are guilty of indifference, she said.

Men found guilty of jealousy or indifference could face up to five years in prison, the newspaper said. Mexico's individual states will determine the punishments, it said.
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Now all well and good if it curbs domestic violence. However what gets me with this law is that it only applies to one party of a marriage. It would appear that women who cheat or deny their husbands sex are not committing a criminal offence.

There seems to be something quite unfair in this law. A man might have reason to be jealous and check up on his wife or not want to have sex with her. She could very well be the one who is cheating. Now the wife in this instance could very well have her husband prosecuted as a form of revenge.

Ms Perez Duarte said the law would be a weapon that women could employ to level the playing field with abusive men.

"Men ought not to feel discriminated against," she told Excelsior.

I don't know, but I think some men might have a right to feel discriminated against. This could be used as a weapon by disgruntled wives who wish to exact revenge on their husbands even if he has done nothing wrong.

Ms Perez Duarte said indifference, jealousy or lack of love were crimes against women just as much as physical violence.

"Jealousy produces a particular type of stress in the person that comes up against it," she said.

"It is exactly the same. They are wounds, psychological scars identical to physical scars."

Again, this could and should apply both ways.

As a woman and one who is a strong opponent to domestic violence, I feel very uncomfortable that such a law could be construed as being somehow fair or just. If the actions of the husband (being jealous or indifferent) directily lead to or is somehow tied in to his committing acts of domestic violence against his spouse, then yes, he should face charges for his actions.

But jealousy, infidelity and indifference on their own are reasons for divorce, not criminal prosecution and it should be applied equally.

Interesting thought none the less. It is commendable they are attempting to address the issue, but are they going the right way about it? Should jealousy and indifference against one's wife be a criminal offence? Should it be a crime to simply not love your wife anymore (keeping in mind that this law could very well deem acts such as jealousy, indifference and no longer loving one's wife as a criminal offence)?

 

[Anti-Flag]

They expect it to reduce suspicion and abuse? It'll probably encourage physical abuse.
What I'd like to know is why so many men suspect their wives of cheating. No smoke without fire perhaps? Such an unbalanced law has only given women even more reason to try it or get away with it.

 

[S.A.M.]

They expect it to reduce suspicion and abuse? It'll probably encourage physical abuse.
What I'd like to know is why so many men suspect their wives of cheating. No smoke without fire perhaps? Such an unbalanced law has only given women even more reason to try it or get away with it.

Ah modern men. So heartwarming.

 

[Prince_James]

And these are the people that are coming to America.

Oh joy.

 

[Bells]

They expect it to reduce suspicion and abuse? It'll probably encourage physical abuse.

Yes it could encourage physical abuse. But then in domestic violent situations, anything could set it off.

What I'd like to know is why so many men suspect their wives of cheating. No smoke without fire perhaps?

Because some men are that paranoid and controlling (however so are some women), hence why some of these laws have been introduced. Imagine the type. He calls her throughout the day every hour, on the hour, and if she fails to answer the phone once, he comes home in a towering rage and beats the living daylights out of her because she must have been with 'him', when she could have just had to do the grocery shopping or been in the bathroom. I have a cousin who was sadly married to such an individual and one time hubby came home and beat her to the point where she passed out because she had failed to pick up the phone. The reason being was that she was giving their baby son a bath at the time. Her calls did not come every hour so she could plan her day around it. Her calls came at any time, sometimes they were 10 minutes apart and sometimes they were 2 hours apart. But if she failed to answer the phone once, that was it. And funnily enough, he was the one with the mistress.

Now as I said in the OP, it is all well and good to catch men who are that paranoid and who act out on said paranoia by beating up their wives. But what about those who do not beat up their wives and are just simply paranoid? Should paranoia be illegal? And what about those who's wives may in fact be cheating? The problem with such a law is that it treading into a very grey area and one that is open to missuse and abuse. Paranoia and jealousy, without abuse, should be a reason to divorce. With abuse, it should be ground for criminal prosecution. While it would help some women who are being abused, it would also allow some women to misuse the object of the law to suit their own needs and purposes.

Such an unbalanced law has only given women even more reason to try it or get away with it.

Consider the women it is meant to help. I guess the situation is becoming dire enough that they are desperate enough to have to enact such laws.

However, aspects such as indifference in marriage (eg not sleeping with wife because you no longer love her) is a bit out there. If he's beating her because he no longer loves her, then yes, arrest the turd. But if the husband just stops sleeping with his wife, I would consider that to be a reason for divorce and not criminal prosecution.

And these are the people that are coming to America.

Oh joy.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Baron Max]

Consider the women it is meant to help. I guess the situation is becoming dire enough that they are desperate enough to have to enact such laws.

Wife abuse, beating women or wives, rape, etc. is already against the law in Mexico. How will one more lousy, fuckin' law do anything to stop what's already being done against the previous laws?

Baron Max

 

[Anti-Flag]

Ah modern men. So heartwarming.

Care to elaborate?

Yes it could encourage physical abuse. But then in domestic violent situations, anything could set it off.

True, but the aim should be to reduce it, I'm not convinced this will do that in any way, except by increasing the divorce rate and putting many innocent people behind bars.

Because some men are that paranoid and controlling (however so are some women), hence why some of these laws have been introduced. Imagine the type. He calls her throughout the day every hour, on the hour, and if she fails to answer the phone once, he comes home in a towering rage and beats the living daylights out of her because she must have been with 'him', when she could have just had to do the grocery shopping or been in the bathroom. I have a cousin who was sadly married to such an individual and one time hubby came home and beat her to the point where she passed out because she had failed to pick up the phone. The reason being was that she was giving their baby son a bath at the time. Her calls did not come every hour so she could plan her day around it. Her calls came at any time, sometimes they were 10 minutes apart and sometimes they were 2 hours apart. But if she failed to answer the phone once, that was it. And funnily enough, he was the one with the mistress.

Exactly how common is this in mexico? More so than other countries? Why? Does it need a law outside of domestic abuse laws? They should be behind bars for that regardless so isn't this law majorly pointless?

Now as I said in the OP, it is all well and good to catch men who are that paranoid and who act out on said paranoia by beating up their wives. But what about those who do not beat up their wives and are just simply paranoid? Should paranoia be illegal?

Of course not, and as I said, there is rarely smoke without fire. The question is why are these people paranoid? Is it their own cheating making them paranoid or something the women are doing? Everybody gets jealous or paranoid, especially when they don't want to lose someone, as far as I know the majority of this is harmless and doesn't turn abusive. I'd really like to know why mexico has this epidemic to the extent it needs a bias law.

And what about those who's wives may in fact be cheating? The problem with such a law is that it treading into a very grey area and one that is open to missuse and abuse. Paranoia and jealousy, without abuse, should be a reason to divorce.

Very much so, as if being sexist wasn't enough, the potential for exploitation of the law for a persons own gain is far too great.

With abuse, it should be ground for criminal prosecution. While it would help some women who are being abused, it would also allow some women to misuse the object of the law to suit their own needs and purposes.

Really abuse is abuse and should be prosecuted, that is the crime they should be focused on, it's not a crime to check up on someone, even if it is bloody irritating.
I think that law is completely unnecessary.

Consider the women it is meant to help. I guess the situation is becoming dire enough that they are desperate enough to have to enact such laws.

Why? If it doesn't turn abusive then outside of any stress on the marraige is it really doing much harm? What if the women put up with that but not abuse?

However, aspects such as indifference in marriage (eg not sleeping with wife because you no longer love her) is a bit out there. If he's beating her because he no longer loves her, then yes, arrest the turd. But if the husband just stops sleeping with his wife, I would consider that to be a reason for divorce and not criminal prosecution.

If he's beating her he should be arrested. Period. The rest of that law is bull though, he has to sleep with her, talk to her. Isn't this all interfering just a bit too much?
Don't get me wrong I completely want abuse to stop, but this really doesn't stop it. I can see a lot of people will read it and think now they can cheat easier, if the guy suspects, they'll get this law enacted, if not then all's good, until the abuse starts.
Think how guys would act in this situation, women are really not that different, if they think they might get away with it they are more likely to try it.
I'm actually concerned you consider not sleeping with a partner grounds for divorce, what if it was the woman not sleeping with the man? Is sex a necessary part of marraige?

 

[Bells]

True, but the aim should be to reduce it, I'm not convinced this will do that in any way, except by increasing the divorce rate and putting many innocent people behind bars.

I agree with you.

Exactly how common is this in mexico? More so than other countries? Why? Does it need a law outside of domestic abuse laws? They should be behind bars for that regardless so isn't this law majorly pointless?

The article stated that domestic abuse resulted in 75% of the murders of women in Mexico. As to the rate of domestic abuse in Mexico, I would imagine that the true numbers can never be known as not all women report it. And I agree, this law does appear to be largely pointless. I would hope that there would have to be some boundaries within it because it is treading into such a grey area of marriage.

Of course not, and as I said, there is rarely smoke without fire. The question is why are these people paranoid?

Some people just are.

I have met many people who are like that. Some people are that controlling and do get that jealous at just about everything.

Is it their own cheating making them paranoid or something the women are doing?

No. That's the thing. A lot (of the callers that is) don't cheat. They are just the type to have over active imaginations and need to know what the other is doing at all times. I went out with a guy like that in my first year of uni. He would ring me all day every day... "Just to check in and say I love you".. and we'd only been on about 3 dates. Lets just say I ended it very very quickly.

Some people are that controlling and jealous and paranoid.

Everybody gets jealous or paranoid, especially when they don't want to lose someone, as far as I know the majority of this is harmless and doesn't turn abusive. I'd really like to know why mexico has this epidemic to the extent it needs a bias law.

That's the thing. Should jealousy be illegal. Hence why I asked the question before as well. If the relationship is abusive, the guy should be jailed (as should the woman if she is the abuser). But if it is not? Then it goes too far.

The rest of that law is bull though, he has to sleep with her, talk to her. Isn't this all interfering just a bit too much?

I agree. If he abuses her, then he should go to jail. And I agree this law does seem very intrusive.

I'm actually concerned you consider not sleeping with a partner grounds for divorce, what if it was the woman not sleeping with the man? Is sex a necessary part of marraige?

It is if either or both of the parties in the marriage expected it to be or want it to be and find themselves unhappy and want to divorce because of it. That's up to those who are in that situation to decide for themselves. I am not saying it should be law that sex is necessary in marriage. That depends on the individuals in the marriage and the law should not enter into that domain. As I had said, it might be a reason for divorce if the married couple think it should be, but it should not be illegal to not sleep with your spouse. As in it is in the personal domain of marriage and should not be in the public domain.

 

[Anti-Flag]

Bells - I think we're very much on the same page with this, and I fully agree with the majority of what you say, I'm quite frankly outraged at such a law.
I don't know a lot about mexican culture, but it would seem to have a low rate of murder outside of domestic abuse. Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions to say that if that is the case then a lot of abuse is occuring, and I'd be very interested in finding out why.
I agree some people are very jealous/paranoid, but usually it's a minority, it seems in mexico this is not the case and again I'm very curious as to why, I can't really come up with a reason for why it would be so different.
Has abuse against women just generally been more acceptable there? Is it still a place of unequality?
I really do think most people have a reason for being paranoid and such, be it past experience or something else making them doubt the faithfulness of their partner, often their own sense of guilt. If it is just a case of overactive imaginations, to me, it seems the mexicans are experiencing this a lot worse than others.

As for the sex in marraige, personally I think people should talk about it, but where do you draw the line with it being a reason for divorce? The sex doesn't occur? It's bad? It's not frequent enough? Are any of these really acceptable reasons for divorce? If so then at what age? I don't think sex should play enough of a part in a lifelong relationship to result in divorce, there will be so many more reasons you chose that person, I'd be very disappointed in anyone using that reason alone. These things usually can be worked through also.

 

[Oxygen]

I know a lot of women who are from Mexico and one of the problems is the view of what it means to "be a man". Spousal abuse is part of it. Some women will try to use the systems in place to get out of abusive relationships, but there's a mindset of "What did you do to piss him off?" Divorce is a big speed bump in the Catholic church, as the view is that it's woman's place to suffer. After all, God brought you together for a reason. If you're being abused, you obviously have a lesson to learn from it. I don't know if that's the official Vatican view, but that's the view from the streets, and I've lived in Mexican neighborhoods almost all my life.

If men find this law to be unfair, it's unlikely that very many would say anything about it. It wouldn't be 'macho' to whine to the authorities about something not being fair. You'd be expected to prove that you've got the cajones to take care of things yourself, which could involve anything from stepping out to beating your wife into submission or even to killing her and dumping her body somewhere out in the desert, which has been a convenient dumping spot for generations. (It doesn't take long for the scavengers to pick the bones clean and scatter them, which, I'm told by an old friend, is why there are so many missing persons cases. The perps, he also says, are often the federales. Imagine going to the authorities to report a missing family member, and they promise to look, although they know exactly where they dumped the body.) A man is also expected to be jealous. They're still largely of the mindset that they have to defend their mate from the (pardon the Animal Planet language) encroachments of other males. Again, it's a machismo thing based on the belief that women are too controlled by their emotions and not their brains, that they will follow the dictates of every petty little temptation that is offered them, and if you can't hold onto your woman, you aren't a man.

I don't think this is a very good law at all. Mexico has a broken system that needs serious repair, and laws like this are like patching an innertube with bubble gum.

 

[Anti-Flag]

So it's mostly a culture thing, interesting. Is it something that can be changed and influenced given the time? Is it all down to the fact that effectively they're still a few years behind other countries with some views? I can't say this is going to help them step into the age of equality and enlightenment though. Would be a shame to set things back.

 

[Oxygen]

I don't know how many women are in the Mexican government, but if there aren't many, it would be a good place to start.