Italian peace activist murdered by Islamist militants in Gaza

[S.A.M.]

Still waiting on a source of US funded Israeli weapons in the hands of Hamas

Meanwhile, as the date for the flotilla approaches and Israelis get twitchy fingers, I guarantee that you'll find more "evidence" of Gazan "evil" receiving world wide press - note how silent the media has been on the Jewish boat to Gaza.

One thing you can unfailingly trust the Israelis to do is be completely unable to recognise the word "enough" - yup I'm expecting them to go off the rails inventing their anti-Gaza activities

 

[CptBork]

Still waiting on a source of US funded Israeli weapons in the hands of Hamas

Oslo accords (the weapons were supposed to go strictly to the PA for internal security), and drug deals. I already mentioned these things in my last post, I await your rebuttal.

 

[S.A.M.]

Again, still waiting on a source that places US funded Israeli weapons in the hands of Hamas in Gaza.

Meanwhile, its common knowledge that both Hamas and the puppet PA are anti-Salafi, so you can be sure that the Al Qaeda bogeyman has been raised for the benefit of the US audience - in the wake of the US boat to Gaza - who cannot tell the difference between Iraq and Saudi Arabia - the fact that Nutyahoo has claimed the US boat is occupied by Islamic militants when its organised by Jews for Justice for Palestinians should indicate how the wind blows

 

[CptBork]

Meanwhile, its common knowledge that both Hamas and the puppet PA are anti-Salafi, so you can be sure that the Al Qaeda bogeyman has been raised for the benefit of the US audience - in the wake of the US boat to Gaza - who cannot tell the difference between Iraq and Saudi Arabia - the fact that Nutyahoo has claimed the US boat is occupied by Islamic militants when its organised by Jews for Justice for Palestinians should indicate how the wind blows

I'm pretty sure that when Israel blames something on Al Qaeda in Gaza, it's with the implication that Hamas wasn't involved. Israel holds Hamas responsible for maintaining calm and order on the Palestinians' side of the border, but their officers say all the time in the press how Hamas doesn't have full control of the situation, or things would probably be a lot more quiet.

If you're upset about Al Qaeda being used to undermine the Palestinian cause, then tell Al Qaeda to stop operating there, and in Egypt and Lebanon too (I actually think Israel doesn't mind Al Qaeda in Lebanon though, because it's too busy fighting Hezbollah to do anything to Israelis). Past Palestinian terror tactics also helped draw a connection in many Americans' minds between what happened on 9/11 and what Israel was experiencing during the 2nd Intifada.

The Israeli press makes it blatantly clear that Hamas isn't the prime suspect in this killing, and that Hamas is smart enough to know how badly these kinds of incidents damage their cause. Here's an example from today, talking precisely about the clash between the PA and Hamas on one side and Salafists on the other.

 

[S.A.M.]

Democracy Now has picked up the story. Apparently all the Salafi groups are denying involvement

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/15/a_beautiful_soul_a_big_heart

And Vittorio was among several ISM leaders on an Israeli "hit list" [the hit list has "disappeared" from its original site stoptheism]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53046178/Israeli-HIT-LIST-Includes-Vittorio-Utopia-Arrigoni

Ironic if this killing rebounds on Israel

 

[CptBork]

Democracy Now has picked up the story. Apparently all the Salafi groups are denying involvement

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/15/a_beautiful_soul_a_big_heart

A quote directly from this article:

The body of 36-year-old Italian peace activist Vittorio Arrigoni was found in Gaza shortly after his captors posted video of him blindfolded and bloodied. They had vowed to execute him unless their group’s leader was freed from custody by Gaza’s Hamas-led government.

So what are you saying? Israel had a spy posing as a Palestinian Salafist leader, the guy got captured, so Israel abducted an Italian activist in order to free their spy? How the heck do you connect the dots like this?

Oh and one Salafist group already did take responsibility, they retracted the claim and changed it to a vote of moral support for the act once they realized they were going to receive trouble from Hamas instead of sweets.

Ironic if this killing rebounds on Israel

That's about as likely to happen as the world finding out the US has been hiding UFO's in the Nevada desert. Rather, when no revelation or evidence of Israeli involvement is produced, this killing and your accompanying red herrings should rebound on you.

 

[S.A.M.]

A quote directly from this article:


So what are you saying? Israel had a spy posing as a Palestinian Salafist leader, the guy got captured, so Israel abducted an Italian activist in order to free their spy? How the heck do you connect the dots like this?

Its not unusual for IDF officers to pose as militants

The testimonies of Gaza Strip residents are revealing new details about the Israel Defense Forces' mode of operation there. In the past two days, Beit Lahia residents forced from their homes said soldiers were posing as members of Hamas' armed wing while advancing on the ground.

http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/186522

Oh and one Salafist group already did take responsibility, they retracted the claim and changed it to a vote of moral support for the act once they realized they were going to receive trouble from Hamas instead of sweets.

Nope, a "previously unknown" group of Salafis allegedly claimed responsibility. As Huwaida Arraf says, its all murky who exactly they are supposed to be. Meanwhile the Salafi leader has publicly - with name and no murky background - disclaimed all responsibility

That's about as likely to happen as the world finding out the US has been hiding UFO's in the Nevada desert. Rather, when no revelation or evidence of Israeli involvement is produced, this killing and your accompanying red herrings should rebound on you.

Or 10 years later Israel will hand out medals to the people who did it, like in the Lavon affair.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3065838,00.html

I'll place my bets on Israelis revealing all.

 

[CptBork]

I'll place my bets on Israelis revealing all.

Yes, too bad you'll never bet your own credibility on any of these insane false flag accusations you frequently spout.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, too bad you'll never bet your own credibility on any of these insane false flag accusations you frequently spout.

Don't need to. Living in the internet age, its hard to survive on hasbara alone

Mistaravim (Hebrew: מסתערבים, lit. Arabized)is the name given to those counter-terrorism units of the Israel Defense Forces in which soldiers are specifically trained to disguise themselves as Arabs in order to kill or capture a wanted terrorist. These are also commonly known as the 'Arab Platoons'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistaravim

Seriously, internet hit lists, Arab platoons, videos with unknown unnamed Salafis.

Why don't they just put a large notice saying "WE DID IT"

 

[CptBork]

Why don't they just put a large notice saying "WE DID IT"

Because in all likelihood, they didn't.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sure just like they didn't kill other ISM activists, like Rachel Corrie

Clearly it is the Palestinians who will kidnap and kill ISM activists. Duh

 

[CptBork]

Sure just like they didn't kill other ISM activists, like Rachel Corrie

Rachel Corrie stood in front of an IDF bulldozer, no one denies that. Whether the driver knew she was there and kept going deliberately or, as they claim, they couldn't see her, no one put any of the blame on Palestinian Salafists. Maybe this is your attempt at hitting below the belt, but I don't see where the connection lies.

Clearly it is the Palestinians who will kidnap and kill ISM activists. Duh

In this latest episode, there is virtually unanimous agreement between Israelis and Palestinians over the kind of people responsible for this killing. The IDF brags all the time about infiltration missions where they disguise soldiers as Palestinian militants, and then kill or abduct some high-level militant. Those kinds of missions last a few hours, they don't send soldiers in to stay for years establishing freaking Salafist mosques.

 

[S.A.M.]

Example of Israeli PR:

Director of Emergency Committee for Israel cackles over Arrigoni and those who mourn him

Like I said, just sit back and watch the train wreck

You can follow Noah Pollocks twitter stream here: http://twitter.com/NoahPollak

Hilarious

In this latest episode, there is virtually unanimous agreement between Israelis and Palestinians

lol, let me guess, the Shin Bet is now channelling Maan News?

they don't send soldiers in to stay for years establishing freaking Salafist mosques.

Except of course, this is exactly how they established Hamas. Or are you forgetting the origin of that group?

According to the Israeli weekly Koteret Rashit (October 1987), "The Islamic associations as well as the university had been supported and encouraged by the Israeli military authority" in charge of the (civilian) administration of the West Bank and Gaza. "They [the Islamic associations and the university] were authorized to receive money payments from abroad."

 

[CptBork]

Example of Israeli PR:

Director of Emergency Committee for Israel cackles over Arrigoni and those who mourn him

Mmmmhmmm, so I guess every Muslim who cheered on 9/11 is somehow personally responsible for what happened? Even if a Jewish activist was killed in a similar fashion in Gaza, there are lots of tasteless right-wingers in Israel who would say they had it coming. Every time an incident like this happens, you start barfing out the same conspiratorial false-flag rhetoric, you seem to think that anyone on this planet with a motive is capable and willing to act on said motive. Maybe the activist was abducted and killed by a million different Israelis, then.

Like I said, just sit back and watch the train wreck

I've been watching your train wreck for the almost 3 years I've been here. But I don't take pleasure in other peoples' troubles, so I hope one day you somehow learn to snap out of it.

Except of course, this is exactly how they established Hamas. Or are you forgetting the origin of that group?

Yeah, they spawned from Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, and then received assistance from Israel in their fight against Arafat, who was also fighting Israel at the time. Your point? Are you trying to say Iran's Ayatollah is an American spy because he received weapons from them in the past?

 

[spidergoat]

Sure just like they didn't kill other ISM activists, like Rachel Corrie

Clearly it is the Palestinians who will kidnap and kill ISM activists. Duh

She put herself in front of an Israeli bulldozer, and most of those other activists did similar things, putting themselves in a war zone (admittedly with bravery), some were even wearing flak jackets, so they knew they could get shot. There is no evidence that they were targeted for who they were.

 

[S.A.M.]

She put herself in front of an Israeli bulldozer, and most of those other activists did similar things, putting themselves in a war zone (admittedly with bravery), some were even wearing flak jackets, so they knew they could get shot. There is no evidence that they were targeted for who they were.

According to the Dy. Battalion commander

Deputy Battalion Commander says avoiding precedent influenced decision not to stop.

http://palsolidarity.org/2011/04/17575/

Yeah, people might actually expect a bulldozer to stop rather than go over a protestor - twice! Egad, what a precedent!

 

[spidergoat]

People that do this know they are playing with fire.

 

[S.A.M.]

People that do this know they are playing with fire.

Yes of course and we have been seeing this since the New Year in the Arab world. How those protestors are treated gives us an insight into what they are up against, yeah? Where do you think Israel falls against Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Bahrain?

 

[Giambattista]

From link SAM gave above...
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/direc...l-mocks-arrigoni-and-those-who-mourn-him.html

One of the local papers in Australia picked up a NYT story on Vittorio Arrigoni’s murder. This section piqued my interest [my emphasis]:

Hamas had earlier tried to crack down on the group Tawhid and Jihad, which appeared to be behind the abduction, and had imprisoned its leader, Hisham Saidani, in March. In a video released on Thursday, the kidnappers said they had captured the Italian in an attempt to free Saidani, and that they would execute him in 30 hours – at 5pm on Friday – if its demands were not met. The video showed Mr Arrigoni alive but beaten and bloodied.
The doctor who performed the autopsy said it appeared Mr Arrigoni had been killed at least 24 hours before the deadline.
Tawhid and Jihad denied responsibility for the killing.

So the group not only defies its own stated goal by killing their prisoner prematurely, but also denies having anything to do with it after the fact. Presumably, only the unknown assailants were speaking on behalf of the group, and maybe no connection exists at all?

Kind of like al Qaeda's supposed mouthpiece, Adam "Gadahn" Pearlman??? The former Jew, grandson of a founder of the ADL, who used to beat up Muslims outside a mosque until he saw the light and converted and became the representative of the American al Qaeda branch... someone asked whether or not bin Laden or any of the other supposed al Qaeda leaders are even aware of who he is or has any contacts with him, or if he's just speaking on his own accord with no authority.
"Oh, yeah sure, I know BL personally! Jihad, baby!" <--- said in perfect American accent...

 

[Diode-Man]

From link SAM gave above...
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/direc...l-mocks-arrigoni-and-those-who-mourn-him.html




So the group not only defies its own stated goal by killing their prisoner prematurely, but also denies having anything to do with it after the fact. Presumably, only the unknown assailants were speaking on behalf of the group, and maybe no connection exists at all?

Kind of like al Qaeda's supposed mouthpiece, Adam "Gadahn" Pearlman??? The former Jew, grandson of a founder of the ADL, who used to beat up Muslims outside a mosque until he saw the light and converted and became the representative of the American al Qaeda branch... someone asked whether or not bin Laden or any of the other supposed al Qaeda leaders are even aware of who he is or has any contacts with him, or if he's just speaking on his own accord with no authority.
"Oh, yeah sure, I know BL personally! Jihad, baby!" <--- said in perfect American accent...

I guess that just depends upon what News entity you're looking at doesn't it?

Can we not all see that having different news agencies produce different information on a subject is just devilry of the highest order? Who knows who's telling the truth? Who cares?

Lets go have some beer shall we?