It is time for us athiests to stand up for ourselves.

[-ND-]

Including yourself apparently.

Here is you admitting that option C does in fact exist:



QED

Consider yourself outwitted.
By yourself.

LOL, you are just trying to make me look stupid by brining bits and pieces to make it look like I am an idiot. It exists temporarly, it does not have an impact on reality it is just an illusion/lie. It exists for the specific individual. (Option C)
Option A and B, exists for everysigle living thing.

You should have quoted the whole post, which is post #172.

 

[lixluke]

LOL, option C does not exist in any situation. It is either true or false. There is not "tralse." (true-false put together)

Option C is for people that make their own truth. We all know that is false.

Think about it. You go to a Court of law. You get 3 options.

1. Guilty
2. Not guilty
3. No contest

Guilty=True
Not Guilty=False
No contest= True or False depending on evidence. It is obvious that option c is just an illusion/delay/lie. Things are either true or false.

Every possible proposition can ONLY either be true or false. It cannot be both at the same time and it cannot be neither.

C is not a mirage. It simply means that the subject is aware that X is either true or false, but hasn't concluded which.

In any proposition, a subject has either arrived at a conclusion or not.
If I propose X: "This box contains a golden egg."

Subject:
A. Conclusion that X is true.
B. Conclusion that X is false.
C. Has not arrived at any conclusion.

 

[lixluke]

Evolution has not been primarely been taught in public schools until recently. Atheism is more tolerated in schools than any other religion. In many schools you cannot mention the Bible, "It offends people." As if the lies they teach in schools isn't offensive to religions.

Oh yes. They're the real worst of the worst. Atheist nutcases in school. Bad memories bad bad bad. Trauma.

 

[-ND-]

Every possible proposition can ONLY either be true or false. It cannot be both at the same time and it cannot be neither.

C is not a mirage. It simply means that the subject is aware that X is either true or false, but doesn't know which.

In any proposition, a subject has either arrived at a conclusion or not.
If I propose X: "This box contains a golden egg."

Subject:
A. Conclusion that X is true.
B. Conclusion that X is false.
C. Has not arrived at any conclusion.

Exactly, leaving option C a temporary standing. It does not contain any value or truth, it contains only subjective matter. Eventually due to course of nature Option C will not have any other options but to join either Option A or B.

 

[Michael]

You are assuming all atheists are good people that love and care for each other and you are assuming that all religious people are hatefull and vengeful. Your post is completely false and ignorant.

I have no idea where this came from. I am NOT assuming all atheists are good people that love and care for each other and I am NOT assuming that all religious people are hatefull and vengeful.

Your post is completely false and ignorant and based on your distorted world view.

Population demographics and social statistics provide strong evidence that people stop worrying about Gods and stop worshiping them when they feel safe. THIS has NOTHING to do with me. It's simple math. Measure people's belief and guess what -ND- that's the outcome on the other side of the equation.

Now, that part that I did make a supposition on is the part about education. It's been my experience that people who have learned of the polytheistic myths that Judaism, Christianity and Islam copied often hear a "click" noise and say Ahhhhhh.... now it makes sense, you know, I always thought it was all bullshit.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Exactly, leaving option C a temporary standing. It does not contain any value or truth, it contains only subjective matter. Eventually due to course of nature Option C will not have any other options but to join either Option A or B.

Wrong.
Gödel proved it.
There are things that are inherently undecidable: i.e. neither provable nor refutable.

 

[Michael]

Anyway, my point is that atheists needn't proactively do a damn thing at all and can't really do anything anyway. IF the world becomes more peaceful then people WILL BECOME ATHEISTIC. If not then they will remain superstitious. If it becomes very insecure I reckon the first religion to wiped out with be Islam as that's probably the one thing most Chinese and Americans can agree on :shrug: So, for your sake, lets hope we see peaceful atheists in the future huh?

 

[Michael]

I doubt this is correct. But I'm interested in what ya got to back it up.

I checked into anxiety and Japanese and found they seem - not enough evidence yet - more afraid of death....(than australians)

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-MDL/schu.htm

They have high dental fear

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8250343

My own experience is that there is a great deal of fear of appearing different - with some teenage and other exceptions - compared to Western nations. Fears of losing control. Fears about having other see one's emotions. Fears of failure. Fears of being rude or causing others embarrassment.

I can't say I can conclude they are MORE afraid than the US. The cross cultural differences make it so hard to determine levels. But I find your assertion problematic for the same reasons.

There's a recent population study in the USA that found exactly that. Japanese probably do have some social fears maybe that's why they do exhibit some level of superstition? Often ringing the bell of a Shinto shrine before their big exam :shrug:

If I remember correctly, I linked that USA study somewhere in a thread on here.

 

[lixluke]

Exactly, leaving option C a temporary standing. It does not contain any value or truth, it contains only subjective matter. Eventually due to course of nature Option C will not have any other options but to join either Option A or B.

That is not what the post was expressing. The point of the post was that no matter who you are or what the proposition is, in every case for all propositions, there is no escape. Every subject (individual observer) MUST occupy either A, B, or C. And can only OCCUPY A, B, or C.

The subject either:
A. Considers the proposition true.
B. Considers the proposition false.
C. Has not arrived at a t/f conclusion about the proposition.

It is not that the matter itself is inconclusive. The matter itself can only be either true or false.

 

[-ND-]

Wrong.
Gödel proved it.
There are things that are inherently undecidable: i.e. neither provable nor refutable.

"Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, for any consistent, effectively generated formal theory that proves certain basic arithmetic truths, there is an arithmetical statement that is true,[1] but not provable in the theory."

Is this what you are talking about?

 

[Doreen]

There's a recent population study in the USA that found exactly that. Japanese probably do have some social fears maybe that's why they do exhibit some level of superstition? Often ringing the bell of a Shinto shrine before their big exam :shrug:

If I remember correctly, I linked that USA study somewhere in a thread on here.

You have a link that shows that the Japanese are less fearful than Americans?

 

[lixluke]

Wrong.
Gödel proved it.
There are things that are inherently undecidable: i.e. neither provable nor refutable.

There is no such thing as a proposition that is inherently 'neither true or false'. You can consider a particular system of justification, and state that there are certain propositions that cannot be proven with that particular method of justification. However, all propositions can only be either true or false regardless of whether or not anybody uses any form of justification to conclude whether or not it is true or false.

 

[-ND-]

That is not what the post was expressing. The point of the post was that no matter who you are or what the proposition is, in every case for all propositions, there is no escape. Every subject (individual observer) MUST occupy either A, B, or C. And can only OCCUPY A, B, or C.

The subject either:
A. Considers the proposition true.
B. Considers the proposition false.
C. Has not arrived at a t/f conclusion about the proposition.

It is not that the matter itself is inconclusive. The matter itself can only be either true or false.

OK, I understand that.

Are you saying that A, B, and C are all the same? Do they all lead to the same point at the end of time? Are, A, B, and C (these options) rellevent at all in the end, or irellevent? Is there any wrong or right? A=wrong B=right C= delayed but eventually will be wrong or right?

 

[Dywyddyr]

"Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, for any consistent, effectively generated formal theory that proves certain basic arithmetic truths, there is an arithmetical statement that is true,[1] but not provable in the theory."
Is this what you are talking about?

No, that's why I stated "undecidable", not "incomplete" or "inconsistent".
Try here, here or here, for example, if you can't be bothered to read the full thing on Gödel.

 

[-ND-]

I have no idea where this came from. I am NOT assuming all atheists are good people that love and care for each other and I am NOT assuming that all religious people are hatefull and vengeful.

Your post is completely false and ignorant and based on your distorted world view.

Population demographics and social statistics provide strong evidence that people stop worrying about Gods and stop worshiping them when they feel safe. THIS has NOTHING to do with me. It's simple math. Measure people's belief and guess what -ND- that's the outcome on the other side of the equation.

Now, that part that I did make a supposition on is the part about education. It's been my experience that people who have learned of the polytheistic myths that Judaism, Christianity and Islam copied often hear a "click" noise and say Ahhhhhh.... now it makes sense, you know, I always thought it was all bullshit.

OK.

Atheism is more than likely the default mentality when people feel safe. If we create a safe world then people will simply become atheists.

LOL!? What does that mean? Do you just say stupid things without thinking or without meaning?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Rule # 1 seems to be... not to acknowledge you'r God is a monster... eh ”

Some day each soul will come to plead for itself...

Do you thank a God who tortures people for eternity is merciful or a monster.???

...if you end up in hell it is your fault and your fault only, do not dare blame anyone else let alone God.

Didnt God alone... create the circumatances which makes it inevitable that people will wind up in hell.???


“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
Do babys that dye at birf beleive in God.??? ”

In the Quran it states, all babies that should pass will go to heaven.

An yet... mos babys that make it to adult-hood will wind up in hell... so shudnt a lovin parent kill ther children to gurantee heaven for ther children.???

The only reason why you ask such stupid questions is because you lack understanding.

Its oK... lol... its all part of Gods plan that hell will be overflowin wit soopid people who lack understandin :thumbsup:

 

[-ND-]

No, that's why I stated "undecidable", not "incomplete" or "inconsistent".
Try here, here or here, for example, if you can't be bothered to read the full thing on Gödel.

This is for mathematics. However I found this - Gödel was a convinced theist. He rejected the notion that God was impersonal. He believed firmly in an afterlife, stating: “I am convinced of the afterlife, independent of theology. If the world is rationally constructed, there must be an afterlife."[16] He said about Islam: “I like Islam: it is a consistent [or consequential] idea of religion and open-minded."[17]

You see geniuses can be believers in God, let alone Islam.

 

[Doreen]

There is no such thing as a proposition that is inherently 'neither true or false'.

This proposition is false.
Two parallel lines never intersect.
One should always try to understand the other person's position.
I could not control myself.
Sentences contain truths.

For various reasons I think the above sentences are neither true nor false.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Which does not alter the fact that there are things which are inherently undecidable.
And bearing in mind that mathematics is far more rigorous than "real life" what makes you think everything in the "real world" has to be true or false only?

 

[Doreen]

Which does not alter the fact that there are things which are inherently undecidable.
And bearing in mind that mathematics is far more rigorous than "real life" what makes you think everything in the "real world" has to be true or false only?

Yo, if you are responding to me, I was agreeing wit ya.