Israel & Palestine

[S.A.M.]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 4/12

Too bad they don't follow the Jewish precedent of ethnic nationalism, which kinda makes your argument suck. Not for lack of trying.

The Arabs, understood as the ensemble of Arabic speakers, are by no stretch of the imagination 'a people'. They pay a heavy price for this dubious self-description. On the one hand, it associates every Arabic speaker with every crime of every other Arabic speaker - this holds even for some whose native tongue isn't Arabic but who live in officially 'Arab' countries. It is as if the Sudanese 'Arab' militias were the armies of a 'people' encompassing the Syrians of Tyre and the Berbers of Marrakesh.

Perhaps this bad press is a mere annoyance. But there is worse. Not only the rest of the world but 'the Arabs' themselves have come think they are somehow a hopeless case: why on earth can't they unite? Why don't they do more for the Palestinians? Why the endless bickering and mistrust? 'The Arabs' in these respects seem like perennial losers incapable of self-government, markedly inferior to 'the Jews'. This impression is only partly countered by savvy remarks about an 'Arab street', always on the verge of rising up against their rotten rulers, yet never, it seems, more genuinely committed to the Palestinians than a fan club to their favorite football team. To the extent that unsustainable attempts at constructing an Arab identity have contributed to the decline of Middle East secularism, they have also contributed to the rise of fanatical religious extremists. This too has hurt the Arabic-speaking world.

Not only does Arab nationalism make 'the Arabs' look bad; it also obscures what is good. When Arab states support and sustain the Palestinians, it is much more from genuine altruism than from bogus racial solidarity. But to the extent that Arabs do not do all that is expected of them - do not take in the Palestinians, do not invite them in as fellow-Arabs, the reason is simple. The Palestinians are not fellow-Arabs. They have no home, no 'homeland' if you like, but Palestine. Wondering why their 'brother Arabs' do not to take them in makes as much sense as wondering why Northern Irish Protestants would not welcome as brothers their 'fellow Anglophones' from Dublin or Watts or the slums of Kingston, Jamaica.

http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann10142009.html

 

[spidergoat]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 5/12

They tried Arab nationalism in Palestine and got their ass kicked. Now they resort to instigating violence and whining to the media about the results.

 

[pjdude1219]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 6/12

They tried Arab nationalism in Palestine and got their ass kicked.

yes it is very said they lost to the invading powers.

Now they resort to instigating violence and whining to the media about the results.

they have to use violence. If they didn't no one would ever hear about them.

 

[S.A.M.]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 7/12

They tried Arab nationalism in Palestine and got their ass kicked. Now they resort to instigating violence and whining to the media about the results.

No "they" never tried Arab nationalism in Palestine. The British did. To oppose the Ottomans.

Ever see Emir Feisal of Iraq?

What the "Arabs" did was what the Americans would do if Canada or Australia was invaded and occupied by foreign immigrants who want to establish an ethnocratic state. They came to help. And, they never went beyond the boundaries mandated under the British as Palestine.

 

[Brian Foley]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 8/12

Apparently, this is how a "democracy" works. Any information on where the Palestinians will go? Gaza perhaps? Where they will need to be defended against with blockades and white phosphorus for not understanding the anguish of the Jewish state?

Israel is running out of options here, it is a case of sweeping the dust under the carpet, the problem is being moved around and it wont disappear. Staving off the inevitability of Palestinian demographic takeover of that nation.

Hopefully, they will blow themselves up with a suicide bomb.

lets hope they detonate themselves within the Dimona complex that we in the Free West had to pay for, from my experience in construction detonations within confined areas become devastating.

also we don't need like daily updates on Israel's crimes here

Yes we do, seeing me and the rest of the people in the free West are financing that countries existence we have a right to a say.

 

[S.A.M.]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 9/12

I think its ironic that most Jews are keeping silent as Israel erases all options for peace. They will pay heavily for that silence in the future, unfortunately.

 

[Brian Foley]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 10/12

I think its ironic that most Jews are keeping silent as Israel erases all options for peace. They will pay heavily for that silence in the future, unfortunately.

Face it as Americas economy contracts Israel will weaken and be alone, and when Israel has no benefactor to protect them there will be no nation in the Mid East that will want to trade with them either. It is a done deal for Israel.

 

[S.A.M.]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 11/12

The Middle East is the least of their worries. If there is anything that is Arabic, it is generosity of spirit. Its the rest of the world they should worry about.

 

[StrawDog]

Mod Note: Thread merged from Israel to raze 150 Palestinian homes Post 12/12

also we don't need like daily updates on Israel's crimes here

Like this.

Israel refuses French FM's request to visit Gaza link

 

[hypewaders]

Mod Note: The 5 posts that follow, including this one were brought over from World Events \ Iran's Nuclear Program May Have Military Dimentias

Hitchens is inconsistent. He tries to explain it away by quoting F.Scott Fitzgerald:

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless yet be determined to make them otherwise."

Do I sometimes wish that Theodor Herzl and Chaim Weizmann had never persuaded either the Jews or the gentiles to create a quasi-utopian farmer-and-worker state at the eastern end of the Mediterranean? Yes. Do I wish that the Israeli air force could find and destroy all the arsenals of Hezbollah and Hamas and Islamic Jihad? Yes.

Although I've agreed with him at times I don't have a lot of respect for Hitchens. I suspect he mostly says and writes things to be televised or published, with self-promotion foremost in consideration; If he were posting here we would have a delightfully intelligent troll to wrangle.

BTW Sam "ZOG" is a term I appreciate much less than Hitchens, and I'll probably go mod if I see it around more. To bandy it here even in jest (since it was coined by white supremacists) is in bad taste. Bin Laden was right about some things too, but I still don't want to see his schtick replicated much.

 

[S.A.M.]

since it was coined by white supremacists

Really? I came across it at mondoweiss, and I thought it was a term coined by the new Zionists or the post Zionists or the anti-zionists whatever they are calling themselves now. Its a frequent topic of discussion there.

 

[hypewaders]

Well, you're wrong. Small consolation, since you were right about the Israeli left. I've been catching up on them, and they're about as well-organized as "al-Qaeda". But I still believe that their greatest days are just ahead; that Likud is going to hit the skids much like their neocon partners did.

Edit: I'll get back to Israeli Leftists in the appropriate thread. I'm putting it off because it's a little bit humiliating. But this thread is supposed to be about Russia's Iran's scary atom-bombs, and our problematic Mission Gap in the USA.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well, you're wrong. Small consolation, since you were right about the Israeli left. I've been catching up on them, and they're about as well-organized as "al-Qaeda". But I still believe that their greatest days are just ahead; that Likud is going to hit the skids much like their neocon partners did.

Okay, if I cannot call them zoggers, can I say Israel-firsters instead? [although I love zoggers, it has a cool ring to it].

Yeah, I know about the [lack of] Israeli left. I keep up with the major players in I-P ever since I attended the Iranian students meet two years ago. I'm with the refuseniks of course. You should read the Israeli papers to see whats going on with J Street in the US currently. Although its Zionism lite, they are being thrashed soundly by the ***gers in an attempt to destroy them before they make any problems for Israel. There is nothing about it in US media of course.

Oh and if you want to meet the tiny tiny Israeli left, look for Joseph Dana and Gideon Levy.

 

[hypewaders]

"Zoggers" sounds good, but if anyone checks the derivation, they will be sucked into the antisamite-antisemite vortex. So think of something better, In fact I'm going to try and move our little sidebar to the Israel/Palestine thread if you don't mind.

End of post merge

 

[hypewaders]

look for Joseph Dana and Gideon Levy

Thanks, I'm doing that now...

Hmmm post-zionists, refuseniks, anti-zionist jews I'm also thinking about this but I think I must say "Zogger" is mamnua, yahneh.

 

[GeoffP]

How dare you think up the term "antiS.A.M.ite"? That occurred to me just an hour ago.

 

[S.A.M.]

Ok, I don't want to offend any sensitive souls, but I think it would be better in the long run, to talk about it now than have it become a powder keg later.

Since I am name dropping, check out Amira Hass, Ta'anit Tzedek, check out the kids who were/are touring the US [Shminitism] note the total media silence on these issues. Hence the ***gers/

 

[hypewaders]

That's right. I'm glad we got this settled. Now we just need a fitting term to replace "Zoggers".

"How dare you think up the term "antiS.A.M.ite"?"

I know I'm not the one who coined the term. I've suffered greatly as a victim of it, though. I remember the first antisamite pogroms back in 2004...

 

[S.A.M.]

Ok its up to you since my soul is politically incorrect. Meanwhile I shall contend myself with ***gers.

 

[hypewaders]

So idiots will substitute "nig"? No, you can do better than that. Sheesh I'm learning Urdu, and you can't come up with a single word? Get with the Program, Sam.