Islamophobia, xenophobia and anti-semitism In the west

[Buffalo Roam]

I think supplying weapons to conflict ridden areas and local warlords increases the conflicts.

What is the basis for African tribal competition? Is it just resources? or do they have different lineages that have fought tribal wars?

What determines hierarchy?

Really they seem to be doing quite well with machetes, and spears, and clubs, and just burning out their opposition.

Ruwanda

Every third Hutu being armed; half a million machetes and other agricultural tools were imported,

 

[John99]

No one bombed civilians and then said we don't do body counts either.

Thats pure Islamophobia or xenophobia or just a case requiring permanent institutionalisation (which is what a person doing stuff like that would merit)

SAM, you are not a moderate. No one bombed civilians:shrug:... ARE YOU KIDDING- look at what led up to this whole mess. You cant say 'hey it is fine to blow people up as long as the ones doing the killing are from this religion or that religion'

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm

 

[w1z4rd]

That is sad, Sudan has become a cesspool.

Like a lot of Africa is or has been... and its going to happen all over again. The last time Africa got lots of weapons was with the whole West democracy vs East (and Cuba) communism thing.

Now its happening again... except on the right are the normal suspects, though this time with less interest, but on the left ...quickly growing in power on the African continent are Russia and China. Ill give you an example.

Russia and China are pumping money into (Zimbabwe`s) Mugabe grubby paws, and he is in turn using that money to keep his control on the country. Russia and China are doing this for Zimbabwe`s resources.

The UK has caught wind of this and is complaining, and Mugabe is blaming the UK for the current famine caused in his country, which is a direct result of his orders to confiscate all land owned by white farmers, and give it (not to the disadvantaged)... but to his own black Zanu-PF ministers... who have in turn allowed the lands to go fallow.

My point is.. he is blaming the UK for his current hardships, but the UK has had nothing to do with that country for almost 20 years. You cant even blame colonialism for the kak now because for the first couple of years Mugabe was seen as a hero, and actually did some good, and the economy prospered.

The conflict and strife in Zimbabwe is now a direct result of his greed, racism and his desire to hold onto power.... but he blames the UK whites... because thats what everyone does, and he knows he can get away with it.

Now the people of Zimbabwe starve, the country has the highest inflation rate. Mugabe has got away with slaughtering 200 000 Matabele, and the rest of the world just sits back and watches it happen.

I remember during Apartheid, no international countries were allowed to play sports with the South African government because of their policies. How come this is not happening now? You have more people dying and starving under Mugabe than under either the Apartheid regime or when Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia.

It kinda pisses me off that the rest of the world play the race card against white people, but then dont use the exact same criteria to deal with the current governments. To me, it seems that "because you are white... you will be punished... but because they are black.. they are allowed to do whatever they want".

I dont understand this hypocacy. People are dying... but no one cares.... because white people are not doing the killing.

Anyways, enough from me today.. I need to get home. Almost supper time!

 

[John99]

Pass the blame, lay to waste. Some ole same ole.

 

[joepistole]

This thread reminds me of another thread in which I posted recently regarding the Iranians threatening US Naval vessels in international waters. I finally quit the thread because logic and rational thought were alien concepts to many on that thread and that sadden me, but also made me curious as to how people could get that way. Then I started thinking about another fascinating aspect of human behavior called projection. I have seen it before and it amazes the hell out of me. But anyway, here is a link to the Wikipedia explanation of the phenomena. I think that is what we are seeing here and in other threads of a similar vein:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

And I think Nietzshe said it best:
Friedrich Nietzsche:
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." [2]

 

[S.A.M.]

Like a lot of Africa is or has been... and its going to happen all over again. The last time Africa got lots of weapons was with the whole West democracy vs East (and Cuba) communism thing.

Now its happening again... except on the right are the normal suspects, though this time with less interest, but on the left ...quickly growing in power on the African continent are Russia and China. Ill give you an example.

Anyways, enough from me today.. I need to get home. Almost supper time!

Yes it is sad that Africa has become the dumping ground for arms, among other things. The arms trade will ruin the world, besides escalating civil war and conflict in Africa.

Thanks for that excellent explanation.

 

[joepistole]

Ok SAM, just remember that mirror works both ways.

 

[S.A.M.]

This thread reminds me of another thread in which I posted recently regarding the Iranians threatening US Naval vessels in international waters. I finally quit the thread because logic and rational thought were alien concepts to many on that thread and that sadden me, but also made me curious as to how people could get that way. Then I started thinking about another fascinating aspect of human behavior called projection. I have seen it before and it amazes the hell out of me. But anyway, here is a link to the Wikipedia explanation of the phenomena. I think that is what we are seeing here and in other threads of a similar vein:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

And I think Nietzshe said it best:
Friedrich Nietzsche:
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." [2]

Yes which is why the native Americans and Aborigines live on reservations, Africa starves with unequal trade policies and the colonialism continues to destroy the Middle East.

Its all projection.

 

[joepistole]

SAM, Native Americans can live wherever they choose on or off reservations. And they have full rights of American citizenship. Reservation is land reserved for the Native American Indian Tribes. They govern themselves. They make their own laws. They enforce their own laws. The tribes exercise sovereignty over those lands, per treaty and judicial rulings. It so happens a lot of those tribes now are quite wealth because of their sovereignty. They allow gambling which is forbidden by law almost in every state, and they have become very wealthy as a result. I am not versed on Australian Aboriginal issues, so I won’t comment.
Colonialism died decades ago. But Africa still struggles with war and famine. It is an issue that Africa needs to solve, not the West. The West has given trillions of dollars to Africa over the course of the last few decades and continues to give government aid and private aid to Africa.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Development/aid/shortfall/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/d...=2007&m=May&x=20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553

There are also issues with OPEC Countries donating money to African countries, in that it favors Muslim countries and that OPEC while donating substancial sums as a percent of GDP/GDI, recevies more from these countries because of oil prices. So when you do a plus minus study, more money is going out of the African countries to OPEC countries than coming back in the form of aid.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19760...s/the-aid-programs-of-the-opec-countries.html

And despite the trillions of dollars spent on Africa, it is poorer now than at any time in history. So we need to look at how to spend aid dollars effectively. I personally think that private aid dollars are more effective than government aid dollars. And it so happens the United States excels in private donations...more than any other country. Donating both money and personal labor. I think private money is less subject to graft and corruption.

I think it benefits us all to look into the mirror before we go casting stones.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Yes which is why the native Americans and Aborigines live on reservations, Africa starves with unequal trade policies and the colonialism continues to destroy the Middle East.

Its all projection.

As pointed out by Joe, Indians in America live where ever they want, and it seems from what I can find out the same thing apply's to the Aboriginals in Australia.

Africa starves with unequal trade policies and the colonialism continues to destroy the Middle East

Why wasn't this a problem when the Whites were in power? under the the white and colonial administrations there were no starvation in most of Africa, the countries were prosperous, they had trade surpluses and good standards of living, why? because the government s were administered by the Europeans, and the Europeans weren't a tribe, most of Africans problems today can be traced to tribalism, and the fear of the other tribe being in power, and using that power to oppress, rivals.

Kennya:

Kikuyu, vs Luhya, vs Luo v Kalenjin, vs Kamba, vs Kisii, vs Meru (Ameru), vs Maasai, vs Turkana, vs Embu, vs Somali (incl. Ajuran and Ogaden), vs Taita, vs Swahili, vs Samburu, no tribe trust another to rule them and run the country fairly.

That has been proven time and again,
Uganda: Bantu vs Nilotic under Idi Ammin,

RWANDA: Tutsi vs Hutu,

Chad:Tama vs Zaghawa,

JSTOR: Tribalism, Nationalism, and Pan-Africanism
Nevertheless, tribalism has not disappeared overnight with the coming of independence; it remains a continuing problem for the leaders of Africa's new ...
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7162(196207)342<21:TNAP>2.0.CO;2-2

 

[iceaura]

- - The West has given trillions of dollars to Africa over the course of the last few decades and continues to give government aid and private aid to Africa.
- - - -
. So when you do a plus minus study, more money is going to OPEC countries than going back into these countries.
- - -
I think it benefits us all to look into the mirror before we go casting stones.

Getting US citizens to look square in the mirror is almost impossible. If you check out the stone thrown right there, and the mirror not examined, you can get a hint of why.

And despite the trillions of dollars spent on Africa, it is poorer now than at any time in history.

When the Portuguese first explored the African coast, they rated a couple of the "kingdoms" they found there as among the richest in the world.

Why wasn't this a problem when the Whites were in power? under the the white and colonial administrations there were no starvation in most of Africa, the countries were prosperous, they had trade surpluses and good standards of living, why?

You have got to be kidding.

 

[joepistole]

no Ice I cann't even understand your post.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Getting US citizens to look square in the mirror is almost impossible. If you check out the stone thrown right there, and the mirror not examined, you can get a hint of why.

And the Molotov throwing left has a problem too.

You have got to be kidding.

No, just do a little research into the economies of Africa before the end of Colonialism, and then look at all the intertribal warfare today.

I grew up in that time frame, and I loved world studies, in school and the biggest thing I remember as far as troubles were the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya, and The Congo crisis, and now watching the political correction of that history.

I don't ever remember any new stories of famine and starvation in Africa before the 70tys, and that would have been something that would have been covered in current events classes.

I remember news articles about famines in China, and the problems India was having and the split of India in to Moslems Pakistain, and of Hindus heading to India, and even the founding of Bangladesh, I remember the first stories about a place called Vietnam, and that we were sending advisors there.

 

[iceaura]

No, just do a little research into the economies of Africa before the end of Colonialism, and then look at all the intertribal warfare today.

Exactly what time frame are we allowed, here ? Africa was prosperous before the Colonialism, trashed by the Colonial invasions, degraded for a couple of hundred years under European management, gradually improving after WWII under liberalising European management, trashed during the pullout of the Colonials, slightly improving after that, and launched into a death spiral since the population started to increase in the late 50s, and the Colonially imposed political organization could not keep up.

In general, of course. Individual countries had their own timelines.

But the idea that the Herreros, say, were more prosperous under German management of their country than before or afterwards, is nonsense.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Exactly what time frame are we allowed, here ? Africa was prosperous before the Colonialism, trashed by the Colonial invasions, degraded for a couple of hundred years under European management, gradually improving after WWII under liberalising European management, trashed during the pullout of the Colonials, slightly improving after that, and launched into a death spiral since the population started to increase in the late 50s, and the Colonially imposed political organization could not keep up.

In general, of course. Individual countries had their own timelines.

But the idea that the Herreros, say, were more prosperous under German management of their country than before or afterwards, is nonsense.

And pretty much up to the with drawl of the colonial powers Africa was in good shape, there were a few problems but nothing like what happened between the late 60 and right up to todays problems, with the with drawl of the colonial powers, tribal nepotism and politics reestablished it self, and the old jealousies came roaring back, name a tribe in Africa that hasn't went to war against another tribe in the same nation, they don't trust the other tribe to give them a fair shake, old blood feuds, and tensions have reemerged, and from one end of Africa to the other as soon as one fire is out out another flares up, Rhodesia didn't have any food problems under white rule, but Zimbabwe does, why?

Mugabe government admits Zimbabwe food crisis
LONDON, UK, March 8, 2005 (ENS): Zimbabwe's ruling ZANU PF government this month admitted that it faces serious food shortages ahead of the traditional May ...
http://www.newfarm.org/international/news/2005/030105/0307/mugabe.shtml

Because they ran all the White Farmers out, and gave the lands to Mugabe tribes men, and they let the land go fallow.

They also trashed the economy;

The Crisis in Zimbabwe: How the U.S. Should Respond
In March 2007, Zimbabwe's inflation rate rose to 1729 percent,[15] and the International Monetary Fund predicts it will top 4000 percent by the end of the ...
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Africa/wm1407.cfm

Were there any problems like that when the Rhodesian Government was in power?

 

[Carcano]

The Mongols ruled over India for 800 years and added to the culture without taking away from it. Under them, India became the richest country in the world. They also ruled over Iran, Iraq, etc but you wouldn't know it.

The Ottomans ruled Arabia, Persia, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine etc for 600 years and they all retained their original cultural landmarks history and peoples.

How would you know what was taken away...if its gone forever, without a trace?

The muslim conquest of India has been called the bloodiest story in history.

Entire hindu families used to go down to the rivers and drown themselves, rather than face the marauding invaders at the gates of their cities.

 

[S.A.M.]

How would you know what was taken away...if its gone forever, without a trace?

The muslim conquest of India has been called the bloodiest story in history.

Entire hindu families used to go down to the rivers and drown themselves, rather than face the marauding invaders at the gates of their cities.

Is this more revised history from Lal?

Or do you have a more valid reference that the British indologists or Hindu fundies?

 

[S.A.M.]

SAM, Native Americans can live wherever they choose on or off reservations. And they have full rights of American citizenship. Reservation is land reserved for the Native American Indian Tribes. They govern themselves. They make their own laws. They enforce their own laws. The tribes exercise sovereignty over those lands, per treaty and judicial rulings. It so happens a lot of those tribes now are quite wealth because of their sovereignty. They allow gambling which is forbidden by law almost in every state, and they have become very wealthy as a result. I am not versed on Australian Aboriginal issues, so I won’t comment.
Colonialism died decades ago. But Africa still struggles with war and famine. It is an issue that Africa needs to solve, not the West. The West has given trillions of dollars to Africa over the course of the last few decades and continues to give government aid and private aid to Africa.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Development/aid/shortfall/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/d...=2007&m=May&x=20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553

There are also issues with OPEC Countries donating money to African countries, in that it favors Muslim countries and that OPEC while donating substancial sums as a percent of GDP/GDI, recevies more from these countries because of oil prices. So when you do a plus minus study, more money is going out of the African countries to OPEC countries than coming back in the form of aid.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19760...s/the-aid-programs-of-the-opec-countries.html

And despite the trillions of dollars spent on Africa, it is poorer now than at any time in history. So we need to look at how to spend aid dollars effectively. I personally think that private aid dollars are more effective than government aid dollars. And it so happens the United States excels in private donations...more than any other country. Donating both money and personal labor. I think private money is less subject to graft and corruption.

I think it benefits us all to look into the mirror before we go casting stones.

So you think if the Native Americans were all to switch places with the current non-native American inhabitants of the US, you would see no changes in the culture ?

You would be happy to do so? To live the lives they lead?

 

[Carcano]

Or do you have a more valid reference that the British indologists or Hindu fundies?

Whats a valid reference to you...one that agrees with your delusions of a peaceful muslim conquest?

 

[S.A.M.]

Whats a valid reference to you...one that agrees with your delusions of a peaceful muslim conquest?

One that was not invented in the last 200 years.

http://www.countercurrents.org/comm-deb100603.htm