Islamophobia, xenophobia and anti-semitism In the west

You do know that there are blacks in Muslim countries? The color based discrimination is a phenomenon that followed the westernisation of the people.

Which is why you have black Arabs vs black Africans with maybe a shade of difference between the black.

Yes, I do, which is why we have the current genocide happening against Christians perptuated by Muslims in Sudan...

... but that is different to the Zanzibar situation. Which was controlled directly at one point by the Sultan of Oman, and the names of the leaders of that island were, Sayyid Said bin Sultan al-Busaid, Sayyid Thuwaini bin Said al-Said and Sayyid Majid bin Said Al-Busaid.

Dont worry, its a common phenomenon for people outside Africa to think that all Africans are black ;)
 
Yes, I do, which is why we have the current genocide happening against Christians perptuated by Muslims in Sudan...

... but that is different to the Zanzibar situation. Which was controlled directly at one point by the Sultan of Oman, and the names of the leaders of that island were, Sayyid Said bin Sultan al-Busaid, Sayyid Thuwaini bin Said al-Said and Sayyid Majid bin Said Al-Busaid.

Dont worry, its a common phenomenon for people outside Africa to think that all Africans are black ;)


Yeah and none of them, before western intervention were poor or starving or ashamed of their backwardness.

Isn't that odd?:)
 
Yeah and none of them, before western intervention were poor or starving or ashamed of their backwardness.

Isn't that odd?:)

Um... bullsh!t. There were regular famines before Europeans came along. Also the way of dealing with the opposing tribe in that time period was to slaughter all the men, take the babies by the feet, and smash their heads against rocks so only their gene`s would be carried forward. They then used to rape the surviving woman and institute them into a life of forced labour.

Do you not know how Shaka treated his own Zulus? Do you not know what he was infamous for? Lets put it this way... its wasnt from fighting the european settlers.

Mfecane (Zulu name, also known as the Difaqane or Lifaqane in Sesotho), is an African expression which means something like "the crushing" or "scattering". It describes a period of widespread chaos and disturbance in southern Africa during the period between 1815 and about 1840.

The Mfecane began between the Tugela River and Pongola River, where Shaka created a militaristic zulu kingdom. The Mfecane spread from there, leading to the formation and consolidation of other groups — such as the Matabele, the Mfengu and the Makololo — and the creation of states such as the modern Lesotho.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mfecane

Should you even be discussing something this? You dont seem to have any knowledge on Africa and its history.
 
Um... bullsh!t. There were regular famines before Europeans came along. Also the way of dealing with the opposing tribe in that time period was to slaughter all the men, take the babies by the feet, and smash their heads against rocks so only their gene`s would be carried forward. They then used to rape the surviving woman and institute them into a life of forced labour.

Do you not know how Shaka treated his own Zulus? Do you not know what he was infamous for? Lets put it this way... its wasnt from fighting the european settlers.

Should you even be discussing something this? You dont seem to have any knowledge on Africa and its history.

I think the European insistence on borders did much damage to Africa., as it did to Arabia and the Middle East.

I admit my knowledge of African politics is sketchy and history was 20 years ago (sigh), but from my reading of it, it was only in countries with substantial European populations that the natives were reduced to second class citizenry.

Is that a mistaken notion?

not according to wiki

In nations that had substantial European populations, for example Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South Africa, systems of second-class citizenship were often set up in order to give Europeans political power far in excess of their numbers. In the Congo Free State, personal property of King Leopold II of Belgium, the native population was submitted to inhumane treatment, and a near slavery status assorted with forced labor. However, the lines were not always drawn strictly across racial lines. In Liberia, citizens who were descendants of American slaves had a political system for over 100 years that gave ex-slaves and natives to the area roughly equal legislative power despite the fact the ex-slaves were outnumbered ten to one in the general population.

Europeans often altered the local balance of power, created ethnic divides where they did not previously exist, and introduced a cultural dichotomy detrimental to the native inhabitants in the areas they controlled. For example, in what are now Rwanda and Burundi, two ethnic groups Hutus and Tutsis had merged into one culture by the time German colonists had taken control of the region in the nineteenth century. No longer divided by ethnicity as intermingling, intermarriage, and merging of cultural practices over the centuries had long since erased visible signs of a culture divide, Belgium instituted a policy of racial categorization upon taking control of the region, as racially based categorization and philosophies were a fixture of the European culture of that time. The term Hutu originally referred to the agricultural-based Bantu-speaking peoples that moved into present day Rwanda and Burundi from the West, and the term Tutsi referred to Northeastern cattle-based peoples that migrated into the region later. The terms described a person's economic class; individuals who owned roughly 10 or more cattle were considered Tutsi, and those with fewer were considered Hutu, regardless of ancestral history. This was not a strict line but a general rule of thumb, and one could move from Hutu to Tutsi and vice versa.

The Belgians introduced a racialized system; European-like features such as fairer skin, ample height, narrow noses were seen as more ideally Hamitic, and belonged to those people closest to Tutsi in ancestry, who were thus given power amongst the colonised peoples. Identity cards were issued based on this philosophy.

Another factor in their destabilisation was cold war politics

Cold War conflicts between the United States and the Soviet Union, as well as the policies of the International Monetary Fund, also played a role in instability. When a country became independent for the first time, it was often expected to align with one of the two superpowers. Many countries in Northern Africa received Soviet military aid, while many in Central and Southern Africa were supported by the United States, France or both. The 1970s saw an escalation, as newly independent Angola and Mozambique aligned themselves with the Soviet Union and the West and South Africa sought to contain Soviet influence by funding insurgency movements. Some countries were ruled by communist parties that sought to impose Soviet policies resulting in atrocities such as the Ethiopian famine of 1984–85.
 
I think the European insistence on borders did much damage to Africa., as it did to Arabia and the Middle East.

I cant aruge with that. You can even blame those borders on the Rwandian genocide... but you need to understand why. With regards to racism in Africa theres one thing that a racist black man would hate more than a white man. A black man from another tribe. Tribalism is much more entrenched in their society then racism. White Europeans were just a passing nuisance to the whole thing.

However, that said, and back to your point on borders. You could say the current issues in Iraq (colonial borders) are caused by the same situation... or to be more specific. The current Kuridish conflict, and the current Islamic conflict between Shiat and Sunni.

However, that again can be traced back to ancient egypt where the same kak happened. So now that we have accepted "borders" as a white caused (though once again... all race groups are just as responsible) problem. What do you suggest we do? Personally I would love to see the removal of ALL border.


I admit my knowledge of African politics is sketchy and history was 20 years ago (sigh), but from my reading of it, it was only in countries with substantial European populations that the natives were reduced to second class citizenry.

Nope, this happened before white people came along, but before it was black white, it was zulu xhosa, and it still continues throughout africa today.

Is that a mistaken notion?

not according to wiki

Yup... show me a successful African nation other than Egypt, Botswana or South Africa.
 
I cant aruge with that. You can even blame those borders on the Rwandian genocide... but you need to understand why. With regards to racism in Africa theres one thing that a racist black man would hate more than a white man. A black man from another tribe. Tribalism is much more entrenched in their society then racism. White Europeans were just a passing nuisance to the whole thing.

However, that said, and back to your point on borders. You could say the current issues in Iraq (colonial borders) are caused by the same situation... or to be more specific. The current Kuridish conflict, and the current Islamic conflict between Shiat and Sunni.

However, that again can be traced back to ancient egypt where the same kak happened. So now that we have accepted "borders" as a white caused (though once again... all race groups are just as responsible) problem. What do you suggest we do? Personally I would love to see the removal of ALL border.

So would I and perhaps that is what the world is slowly moving towards. I hope so.
 
Another factor in their destabilisation was cold war politics

Without a doubt. You had America supplying Apartheid South Africa with weapons and money (even during the sanctions), and you had Russia and Cuba (which is why South African pilots in French Mirage`s went up against Cuban pilots in Russian MiGs) supplying the other side. Now Africa is the dumping ground for most of the worlds cheap weapons and things are slow to get better.

America was supporting RSA on the same premise as why they went into Vietnam. Angola had just gone communist red, and the Americans did not want to see that spill over into the rest of Africa.
 
I think supplying weapons to conflict ridden areas and local warlords increases the conflicts.

What is the basis for African tribal competition? Is it just resources? or do they have different lineages that have fought tribal wars?

What determines hierarchy?
 
What is the basis for African tribal competition? Is it just resources? or do they have different lineages that have fought tribal wars?

Now theres a million dollar question... I really do not know an accurate answer for so this is my speculation. When you say 'resources'. you first need to understand the bantu measurement of wealth was his cattle. Their biggest resource was grazing area. They had not invented the wheel and only had developed the most basic concepts of working with metal. So things like mines and gold and such were irrelevant to them. So the only big resource to those tribes back then was good grazing.

I imagine fighting over grazing for 10`s of thousands of years has instilled a type of hate that goes back to before racism.

In South Africa, the most degrading name a black person can be called, is a "kaffir" (no money if you can guess where that comes from). It is normally a word used by the most racist of white people to describe a black person in a derogatory view. I remember traveling with a Zulu... and I asked him if he knew the one black person I had just seen him in an fight with, and he said, "That man is not Zulu... he is a fucking kaffir". The hate and loathing in his words as he spat that sentence out threw me off balance.


What determines hierarchy?

Might
 
Now theres a million dollar question... I really do not know an accurate answer for so this is my speculation. When you say 'resources'. you first need to understand the bantu measurement of wealth was his cattle. Their biggest resource was grazing area. They had not invented the wheel and only had developed the most basic concepts of working with metal. So things like mines and gold and such were irrelevant to them. So the only big resource to those tribes back then was good grazing.

I imagine fighting over grazing for 10`s of thousands of years has instilled a type of hate that goes back to before racism.

In South Africa, the most degrading name a black person can be called, is a "kaffir" (no money if you can guess where that comes from). It is normally a word used by the most racist of white people to describe a black person in a derogatory view. I remember traveling with a Zulu... and I asked him if he knew the one black person I had just seen him in an fight with, and he said, "That man is not Zulu... he is a fucking kaffir". The hate and loathing in his words as he spat that sentence out threw me off balance.

Might

So its land. And might.

Old as the hills.

I'm a little surprised at the Zulu hate thing, I haven't met any Zulus but I have met Africans from Guinea, Ethiopia, Kenya and Sudan and found them to be very gentle people
 
So its land. And might.

Old as the hills.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay. You got my point.

I'm a little surprised at the Zulu hate thing, I haven't met any Zulus but I have met Africans from New Guinea, Ethiopia, Kenya and Sudan and found them to be very gentle people

In Ethiopia, there is religious war happening, as well as strong tribalism. In Kenya there is tribalism and tribal based killing going on.. also, due to a corrupt elections they are currently in revolt. In Sudan there is a genocide currently happening... I dont know about New Guinea as thats located somewhere near Australia.
 
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay. You got my point.

In Indian Muslim tradition there is an aphorism for war called zar, zan, zameen (wealth, women and land) :p

In Ethiopia, there is religious war happening, as well as strong tribalism. In Kenya there is tribalism and tribal based killing going on. In Sudan there is a genocide currently happening... I dont know about New Guinea as thats located somewhere near Australia.

I mean they did not seem to have a deep seated hated for any ethnic group and felt the war was a tragedy to be avoided. Of course, these are people working in university or hospital so maybe they don't represent average opinion.

I meant Guinea or something similar sounding, she was a worker in a hospital, unfortunately I don't know clearly where she was from.
 
Read the OP.

The American writer Stephen Schwartz has defined Islamophobia as the condemnation of the entirety of Islam and its history as extremist; "denying" the existence of a moderate Muslim majority; regarding Islam as a problem for the world; treating conflicts involving Muslims as necessarily their own fault; insisting that Muslims make changes to their religion; and inciting war against Islam as a whole.[19]

In a 2007 article in Journal of Sociology islamophobia is defined as anti-Muslim racism and a continuation of anti-Asian and anti-Arab racism.[20]

ok. But throughout history no one was ever worried about the moderates, you should read about wars and conflicts throughout history to gain some insight. And dont just read the parts you like best.
 
ok. But throughout history no one was ever worried about the moderates, you should read about wars and conflicts throughout history to gain some insight. And dont just read the parts you like best.

No one bombed civilians and then said we don't do body counts either.

Thats pure Islamophobia or xenophobia or just a case requiring permanent institutionalisation (which is what a person doing stuff like that would merit)
 
I mean they did not seem to have a deep seated hated for any ethnic group and felt the war was a tragedy to be avoided. Of course, these are people working in university or hospital so maybe they don't represent average opinion

To give you an example. South Africa is on the Southern tip of the continent. I live in a city called East London (currently being renamed to "Buffalo City"), and we have a massive township called Umtanzani next to us. Anyways, its on the other side of the continent from Sudan.

There was a family of Sudanese refugees staying in this township. Their crime was to be Christian. Another Sudanese Muslim man who arrived in the area found out about their ethnicity. He killed the entire family. He is now in our jails.

Thousands of miles of apart and still the hate followed.
 
To give you an example. South Africa is on the Southern tip of the continent. I live in a city called East London (currently being renamed to "Buffalo City"), and we have a massive township called Umtanzani next to us. Anyways, its on the other side of the continent from Sudan.

There was a family of Sudanese refugees staying in this township. Their crime was to be Christian. Another Sudanese Muslim man who arrived in the area found out about their ethnicity. He killed the entire family. He is now in our jails.

Thousands of miles of apart and still the hate followed.

That is sad, Sudan has become a cesspool.
 
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