For example? When did they kill "each other in huge numbers just the same! And killed far, far more of each other than westerners have ever killed."? Gimme an example.
Islam vs. the Western World: off-topic posts from a Religion thread
- Thread starter kks
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For example? When did they kill "each other in huge numbers just the same! And killed far, far more of each other than westerners have ever killed."? Gimme an example.
SAM, it's all throughout history! Tribal killings were normal in the old days. And yes, there were vast armies who also did the killings.
History, SAM, .....or do you only read the good parts of history????
Baron Max
Ha, Ha! Hell, SAM, most of "those" people didn't even have "countries" when they were killing each other at will.
SAM, people, including Muslims and Arabs, have been killing each other for millions of years. Why are you trying to deny that simple fact of history???
Baron Max
So? Explain the connection between wipe your ass with your hand and terrorism?
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Why don't you explain it?
I would if I knew how its fucking connected!
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Maybe because it isn't.
The context of the conversation wasn't about Terrorism, it is about the Mind Set of Islam and Muslims, and some of their practitioners', insufferable stiff necked pride in being absolutely backwards, and wanting to return to the Glory Years of the 14 Century.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
No,
What is clear, is that some here, have no problems wiping their asses with human rights.
Mar 9, 3:44 PM EDT
Saudi court sentences 75-year-old woman to lashes
By MAGGIE MICHAEL
Associated Press Writer
Al-Watan identified one man as Fahd al-Anzi, the nephew of Sawadi's late husband, and the other as his friend and business partner Hadiyan bin Zein. It said they were arrested by the religious police after delivering the bread. The men also were convicted and sentenced to lashes and prison.
Ok that then, what does that have to do with wiping their ass?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Tyler:Yes, surely that's a good enough excuse to take away people's freedom and not let them choose their own future. I have absolutely no sympathy for authoritarian territorial grabbing and threats of war. As someone who seems to be generally against American expanisionism, I'm kind of surprised you would manage to excuse Chinese missiles and bombs by "well, they have a thousand years of history." Though perhaps you're not supporting, but just stating. It's kind of like Bush saying about Saddam "he tried to kill my daddy!"
I haven't excused anything, these were her sentiments and I believe what she meant was that the 'attachment' to the 'island' was historical ('a thousand years of feeling'). I mean it is probably a dynamic that would have taken place say if the southern states in the U.S had successfully ceded from the union. The U.S fought for that, mostly because of economic reasons not because they wanted to free slaves, would you also have said that the north at the time didn't have the right to fight over the south? Now the reality is that Taiwan is independent but I do think the resentment over Taiwan from a political point of view has to do with American presence and support in what they see as their backdoor, their territory. Its all about perspective. What I object to is U.S hypocrisy on any non-western issue, everything we do is justified in our eyes. I don't feel as a westerner that its my duty to judge the Chinese and their policies when the U.S has a long history of interference not for the better good of others but to further their own ends. Its like the pot calling the kettle black.
Tyler: No, they don't. That's just the propaganda. They're heavily involved in affecting Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Nepalese politics, as well as African policies. Even if they weren't, I would argue that selling guns and warplanes to a murdering dictator negates the benefit of "staying out of other countries' internal affairs." What they mean when they say this is that they "stay out of other government's affairs." They have no concern for the people.
And neither does the U.S Tyler. What was the U.S thinking when they sold arms to Saddam to fight Iran? Or Israel for that matter? Its the same and I don't understand why you cannot see this. The U.S doesn't have the moral high-ground on this we couldn't give a hoot about the impact of our foreign policy on other countries. Do you believe for example that the war in Iraq was done on behalf of the Iraqi people? I sure hope not!
Tyler: But America has done some good things for other countries. Bosnia. Iraq - though the cost is much too high - will quite probably become a democracy. Been massively supportive of some burgeoning democracies (though Russia may be squashing that hope). America, in short, may be bad, but it's not bad as a matter of rule. China will openly support dictators as a matter of furthering it's own legitimacy.
And when you say they "don't deny it" you're wrong. They deny it to their own people and censor any information about it. I doubt the Chinese people would support these policies if they knew.
I think you look at the States through rose colored glasses. The Chinese DOES support dictators and they don't hide this in the broader political scene. What they hide from their own people is no different than what I witnessed in the U.S during eight years of propaganda perpetuated by the media of how much 'good' we are doing chasing the 'bad guys' being the 'good guys'. Didn't they lie to their own population to justify an illegal war? Didn't they lie to their own people as they bombed two neutral countries, Lao and Cambodia during the Vietnam war? Did they tell the American public that money was being given to Bin Laden and the Taliban because they didn't want the Russians to gain access to an oil pipeline? As for Iraq I suggest you read Robert Fisk 'The Age of the Warrior'. As a middle-east correspondent and scholar he doesn't belive in this so called artificial democracy that is waiting to collapse in Iraq. This opinion that we have brought a lasting democracy to Iraq is truly naive and I am surprised you believe it at all, but time will tell. It seems, though I am not sure, that you believe in the American myth and not in its reality.
Tyler: This I just can't agree with at all. Each person is responsible for their own decisions, and you cannot blame America for what Russian and Chinese individuals have chosen to do. If your defense of China's arms-sale to Sudan and protection of it's leaders is "well.... America does bad things too!" I would say "yes, they do. And both of them should stop." I can't for the life of me understand the "well America does bad, so China can do bad too" argument - don't mothers teach their children that two wrongs don't make a right anymore?
Global politics don't follow the rules of the school yard. The truth is that since the U.S doesn't follow its own 'moral agenda' no one else will either. Why should they?
Tyler:They offer aid to nations that will sell them oil and buy their weapons. For all the (due and correct) criticism America has received for giving aid to nations in exchange for oil and construction contracts, I would think oil/weapons deserves the same if not more.
I'm having a very hard time understanding how you think America is worse than China. Or maybe you're not suggesting that. But this all started when I said that I think Chinese/Russian world-rule will be worse than American-led world-rule. If you think the Russians and Chinese will do a better job at leading the world, I'd love to hear why. Because frankly, what I've seen inside China is not very encouraging.
No the U.S just invades and conquers a country to get to its oi! Haliburton croons and Cheyney sets policy. As for Chinese aid in Africa they don't just trade in arms they also offer other things like building of infrastructure etc. Its a fallacy that all African countries ask of the Chinese are arms. I don't think the U.S is worse than China ,though I think we have caused more damage globally, I am simply saying that the U.S is playing the same game which is why when the present Secretary of State told the Chinese to buck up their human rights issues China told her to mind her own country's human rights abuses (basically to mind her damn business!) like Guantanomo and pre-emptive attacks and invasion of other sovereign nations for example. Why do you think that China or Russia has the desire to 'rule the world'? They are simply players among other nefarious players.
I haven't excused anything, these were her sentiments and I believe what she meant was that the 'attachment' to the 'island' was historical ('a thousand years of feeling'). I mean it is probably a dynamic that would have taken place say if the southern states in the U.S had successfully ceded from the union. The U.S fought for that, mostly because of economic reasons not because they wanted to free slaves, would you also have said that the north at the time didn't have the right to fight over the south? Now the reality is that Taiwan is independent but I do think the resentment over Taiwan from a political point of view has to do with American presence and support in what they see as their backdoor, their territory. Its all about perspective. What I object to is U.S hypocrisy on any non-western issue, everything we do is justified in our eyes. I don't feel as a westerner that its my duty to judge the Chinese and their policies when the U.S has a long history of interference not for the better good of others but to further their own ends. Its like the pot calling the kettle black.
Tyler: No, they don't. That's just the propaganda. They're heavily involved in affecting Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Nepalese politics, as well as African policies. Even if they weren't, I would argue that selling guns and warplanes to a murdering dictator negates the benefit of "staying out of other countries' internal affairs." What they mean when they say this is that they "stay out of other government's affairs." They have no concern for the people.
And neither does the U.S Tyler. What was the U.S thinking when they sold arms to Saddam to fight Iran? Or Israel for that matter? Its the same and I don't understand why you cannot see this. The U.S doesn't have the moral high-ground on this we couldn't give a hoot about the impact of our foreign policy on other countries. Do you believe for example that the war in Iraq was done on behalf of the Iraqi people? I sure hope not!
Tyler: But America has done some good things for other countries. Bosnia. Iraq - though the cost is much too high - will quite probably become a democracy. Been massively supportive of some burgeoning democracies (though Russia may be squashing that hope). America, in short, may be bad, but it's not bad as a matter of rule. China will openly support dictators as a matter of furthering it's own legitimacy.
And when you say they "don't deny it" you're wrong. They deny it to their own people and censor any information about it. I doubt the Chinese people would support these policies if they knew.
I think you look at the States through rose colored glasses. The Chinese DOES support dictators and they don't hide this in the broader political scene. What they hide from their own people is no different than what I witnessed in the U.S during eight years of propaganda perpetuated by the media of how much 'good' we are doing chasing the 'bad guys' being the 'good guys'. Didn't they lie to their own population to justify an illegal war? Didn't they lie to their own people as they bombed two neutral countries, Lao and Cambodia during the Vietnam war? Did they tell the American public that money was being given to Bin Laden and the Taliban because they didn't want the Russians to gain access to an oil pipeline? As for Iraq I suggest you read Robert Fisk 'The Age of the Warrior'. As a middle-east correspondent and scholar he doesn't belive in this so called artificial democracy that is waiting to collapse in Iraq. This opinion that we have brought a lasting democracy to Iraq is truly naive and I am surprised you believe it at all, but time will tell. It seems, though I am not sure, that you believe in the American myth and not in its reality.
Tyler: This I just can't agree with at all. Each person is responsible for their own decisions, and you cannot blame America for what Russian and Chinese individuals have chosen to do. If your defense of China's arms-sale to Sudan and protection of it's leaders is "well.... America does bad things too!" I would say "yes, they do. And both of them should stop." I can't for the life of me understand the "well America does bad, so China can do bad too" argument - don't mothers teach their children that two wrongs don't make a right anymore?
Global politics don't follow the rules of the school yard. The truth is that since the U.S doesn't follow its own 'moral agenda' no one else will either. Why should they?
Tyler:They offer aid to nations that will sell them oil and buy their weapons. For all the (due and correct) criticism America has received for giving aid to nations in exchange for oil and construction contracts, I would think oil/weapons deserves the same if not more.
I'm having a very hard time understanding how you think America is worse than China. Or maybe you're not suggesting that. But this all started when I said that I think Chinese/Russian world-rule will be worse than American-led world-rule. If you think the Russians and Chinese will do a better job at leading the world, I'd love to hear why. Because frankly, what I've seen inside China is not very encouraging.
No the U.S just invades and conquers a country to get to its oi! Haliburton croons and Cheyney sets policy. As for Chinese aid in Africa they don't just trade in arms they also offer other things like building of infrastructure etc. Its a fallacy that all African countries ask of the Chinese are arms. I don't think the U.S is worse than China ,though I think we have caused more damage globally, I am simply saying that the U.S is playing the same game which is why when the present Secretary of State told the Chinese to buck up their human rights issues China told her to mind her own country's human rights abuses (basically to mind her damn business!) like Guantanomo and pre-emptive attacks and invasion of other sovereign nations for example. Why do you think that China or Russia has the desire to 'rule the world'? They are simply players among other nefarious players.
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Well lets hear it from history. Please can you corroborate your statement:
Remember to include all intra European wars and tribal conflicts in your corroboration. And lets use the last 1000 years as the timeline.
Ah yes.
"Arab mindset" of passing the"bull"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wCAnpo2ms
Progressive western bullshit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBXqZ0TnXKA&feature=related
"Arab mindset" of passing the"bull"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wCAnpo2ms
Progressive western bullshit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBXqZ0TnXKA&feature=related
That is just so frikking depressing.
Of course the stats indicate a HUGE underlying issue. (http://www.voanews.com/english/arch...essionid=de30350d5ae66ff988d2466a13414c457e39)
Shalom
To the one a game, to the other, survival. Lord Kitchener revisited. Barbaric.
And then blaming the victim for not using technology to fight back, knowing he hasn't any.
Sick.