Islam vs. the Western World: off-topic posts from a Religion thread

[kks]

Arab mindset

It seems to me that the mindset of the arabs (afghanistan people i.e) are at a different level than ours in the west. We would typically look at the situation and think that we needed hospitals for the sick, equipment to harnest our natural resources so that we can get a stable and good economy, build schools to educate our children etc. They don't seem to think about these things at all. It's like its not even an option for them to try to improve their own living standards.

Anyone else out there who has similar thought?

 

[Bowser]

Well, there are many things at play over there in Afghanistan: civil war, fundamentalism, poverty, death and pain. As for the regions dominated by muslim faith, I get the impression that there is a desire for the return of islam's former glory.

 

[Captain Canada]

Just to point out a few things.

1. Afghans are not Arabs.

2. Arab does not equal Muslim.

3. Muslim does not equal fundamentalist.

4. Fundamentalist does not equal terrorist.

5. Westerners can be Muslims too!

All of the blurred distinctions are a lazy way to blame a group, race, society, religion or country for the acts of a few people.

Bowser:
As for the regions dominated by muslim faith, I get the impression that there is a desire for the return of islam's former glory.

I think you're right, in essence. The idea of an Islamic power to balance the Christian dominated West is one that appeals, and was the way the world was for around 1100 years. Perhaps such a balance would be useful again, though Islamic powers of their day were far less extreme than those today - another appealing idea.

 

[Biggles]

I salute you Captain!!

It's a pleasure reading your comments

 

[kmguru]

Good post Capitan. As the Islamic fundamentalists want to be anti-everything (Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and anything else that moves), unless they are controlled by their own people, these type of trouble will continue until the rest of the world go after and terminate them.

 

[Counterbalance]

Anyone interested in understanding what it is like to live in Afghanistan today might benefit from reading this article. It's long, but very informative.


http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2001/June/Afghan/index.html

 

[kmguru]

It is really looong. One thing I did not get it, is why Iranians did not help!

 

[Counterbalance]

True, Kmguru... the article is really long. I didn't read it in one sitting. Still, I believe it broadened my understanding of what the situation is like in Afghanistan.

Not sure whom you are suggesting the Iranians should help. If you are suggesting that they should help the Afghans because they are Arab or Muslim...well, as Capn. Canada pointed out, it's not quite that simple.

Politics, religion, terrorism... these are never simple matters and the Afghanistan chapter of this even longer story is complex, indeed.

The optimum outcome for Afghanistan would be for its people to learn how best to help themselves. (Opium is their cash crop and the area has suffered severe drought for 3+ years) However, this would also likely involve being liberated from those who have been in power there for several years now. As it is generally asserted that the Taliban is closely connected to many of the terrorist acts the world has seen recently, Afghanistan now stands a chance of gaining that liberation.

And then there's the questions of: What will they do with the freedom once they have it? Who will take the Taliban's place? Will the tribes of Afghanistan ever unite and form one central government?

And these are just a few of the questions Afghanistan may face in the near future. Questions that are probably on the minds of many folk, Arab and otherwise.

If it seems that the people of Afghanistan don't think of taking care of themselves, I would have to disagree. Millions of them have tried to flee into neighboring countries. That's all they can do. They have been reduced to that level of "mindset." The mindset of staying alive.

Yet there are underground efforts still in play there that intend to help educate all--including women--and efforts to resist the "mindsets" of dictatorship and terrorism. Unfortunately, it appears that outside help will be needed to make these efforts worthwhile.

None of this is simple, but it is time for solutions to be sought. To solve a problem, we need to understand what we're dealing with.

 

[cosmictraveler]

The Teliban operate in Afghanistan to keep people locked away that don't do what the Teliban want them to do. The Teliban rape women, murder children and torture those that they feel are against them. Their brutal tactics do not encourage any other education than Wwhat the Teliban want the people to know and the Teliban could care less about the welfare of the people they use up. The Teliban operate to make money for themselves by controlling the opium growth and production of heroin there. If the opium fields were destroyed there wouldn't be any money for the Teliban to have to get the weapons they need to have an army of their own.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Just to point out a few things.

1. Afghans are not Arabs.

2. Arab does not equal Muslim.

3. Muslim does not equal fundamentalist.

4. Fundamentalist does not equal terrorist.

5. Westerners can be Muslims too!

All of the blurred distinctions are a lazy way to blame a group, race, society, religion or country for the acts of a few people.



I think you're right, in essence. The idea of an Islamic power to balance the Christian dominated West is one that appeals, and was the way the world was for around 1100 years. Perhaps such a balance would be useful again, though Islamic powers of their day were far less extreme than those today - another appealing idea.

Great, now answer one question, why are the vast majority of terrorist acts committed in the Name of Allah, why is the most common rallying war cry, Allahu Akhbar!!!!!!!!

Yes, not all Muslims are Terrorist, but the vast majority of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims.

Google Search:

Results 1 - 10 of about 3,000,000 for Muslim Terror

3,000,000 stories about Muslim Terror, yes name the day where some act of terror isn't committed, killing innocent people, Muslims and people of other religions, in the name of Allah, the Religion of Peace, and sanctity of the Ummah.

There are many Muslims who I have no problem with prime example Zackaryia, here on the Forum, or those of the Bahai' but there are a vast number of Muslims who are on a Mission from Allah, to convert the world with the sword and war if necessary, and to them it is necessary, and return the world to the Glory Days of Islam, 1400 years ago.

Islamic powers of 1400 years ago less extreme, revisionist history, Just read the Muslim Conquest of India, and tell me that Islam is less extreme than the western powers of today.

Read the histories of the Islamic Conquest and establishment of their Empire, and tell me that they were less extreme than the Western Power's of today, only in revisionist history.

It the Western Powers of today were as extreme as the Muslim Terrorist of today, let alone Islam 1400 years ago there wouldn't be a Muslim enclave anywhere in Europe or the Americas that hadn't been razed to the ground and their population killed of sent packing back to the middle east with no boat.

Yes, Sir, you are a revisionist.

 

[pjdude1219]

I see buffalo is asking a question that has all ready been answered again because the answer doesn't fit his bigotry. The reason most terrorism happens in the islamic world is because the factors that would increase terrorism as well as violence are higher their. look at non muslim africa. A lot of terrorism there.

 

[Exeter]

Great, now answer one question, why are the vast majority of terrorist acts committed in the Name of Allah, why is the most common rallying war cry, Allahu Akhbar!!!!!!!!

Yes, not all Muslims are Terrorist, but the vast majority of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims.



3,000,000 stories about Muslim Terror, yes name the day where some act of terror isn't committed, killing innocent people, Muslims and people of other religions, in the name of Allah, the Religion of Peace, and sanctity of the Ummah.

There are many Muslims who I have no problem with prime example Zackaryia, here on the Forum, or those of the Bahai' but there are a vast number of Muslims who are on a Mission from Allah, to convert the world with the sword and war if necessary, and to them it is necessary, and return the world to the Glory Days of Islam, 1400 years ago.

Islamic powers of 1400 years ago less extreme, revisionist history, Just read the Muslim Conquest of India, and tell me that Islam is less extreme than the western powers of today.

Read the histories of the Islamic Conquest and establishment of their Empire, and tell me that they were less extreme than the Western Power's of today, only in revisionist history.

It the Western Powers of today were as extreme as the Muslim Terrorist of today, let alone Islam 1400 years ago there wouldn't be a Muslim enclave anywhere in Europe or the Americas that hadn't been razed to the ground and their population killed of sent packing back to the middle east with no boat.

Yes, Sir, you are a revisionist.

Let me insert a minor, but yet at the same time, significant difference in the perception of these radical Muslims, and say, Christians. Taking into account the many shortcomings on both sides, there is a major contrast. Christians believe in going from flesh and blood to spirit, however the Muslims go from flesh to flesh, as in the example of the many Virgins to be had after detonating an explosive vest, so right away I can see the inferior perception aquired by these subnormal beings blowing themselves up under the belief of a failed view of their religion.

 

[kmguru]

The question may be: Is Islam a progressive or a regressive religion?

 

[Cazzo]

Well, there are many things at play over there in Afghanistan: civil war, fundamentalism, poverty, death and pain. As for the regions dominated by muslim faith, I get the impression that there is a desire for the return of islam's former glory.

There are islamic countries working on improving their infrastructure, just look at Dubai for example, where they're literally building a city more grand than NYC from the desert.

 

[Exeter]

The question may be: Is Islam a progressive or a regressive religion?

At first Islam seemed on course to be an enlightening religion, just look at the many things invented and done within the first couple hundred years. So what happened? It would make me mad too in pondering this. Prehaps I would embark on a similar path of condemnation towards others, and become so inflexable as to carry out the same edicts and violence against " unbelievers " anywhere. You get my point. the truth is unmentionable in Islamic terms. The still born attributes associated with the belief is saddening.

 

[kmguru]

There are islamic countries working on improving their infrastructure, just look at Dubai for example, where they're literally building a city more grand than NYC from the desert.

Great architecture should have the support of a culture equally great. The cities functions will cease to exist when the hired hands are forced to leave or are jailed when they can not meet their debt obligations. That itself is anti-islamic.

It is not about religious books, it is what the people do with it.

 

[Exeter]

The question may be: Is Islam a progressive or a regressive religion?

Depends on who you think Allah is. I can give away my belief with just one sentence. Allah is not the god of Abraham.

 

[kmguru]

Depends on who you think Allah is. I can give away my belief with just one sentence. Allah is not the god of Abraham.

So, are you saying there are two or more Gods fighting up there for the puny humans?

 

[Michael]

There are islamic countries working on improving their infrastructure, just look at Dubai for example, where they're literally building a city more grand than NYC from the desert.

These a beautiful pictures, one has to admire the German engineer's who designed the buildings.

 

[Exeter]

So, are you saying there are two or more Gods fighting up there for the puny humans?

No, there is only one God. Allah is the one who sent the Angel (Gabriel) to Muhammed. You remember Muhammed, and if you have studied him, and his "conversion" we see a man completely undone by this encounter. He attempted suicide on a few occasions. There is no account of any Prophet in the scriptures I believe in, that attemped suicide after coming in contact by the true God. In fact, this very aspect of Muhammed's "conversion" is a graphic portrayal of Demon possession, and the distress associated with the forced conversion by this entity. Of course we know the outcome, and subsequent history resulting from it.