Is your god good or is good your god?

M

Mr. Hamtastic

whackawhackado!
Registered Senior Member
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
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All us humans really want is to be free of danger and to lead happy lives. I therefore define "goodness" as that which serves the needs of the individual and humanity as whole to that end. Anything that violates this principle is therefore bad even if it's a commandment from a deity.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
Click to expand...
Neither good nor bad but capable of both. God is the will of the people dude and there is a hidden language based in instinct that directs the movements of humanity as a whole . It is what we perceive as God. This instinct language is in everything and Humans have become asleep to the language . So when it is said Man created God that is not so far off , It is the collective of man that creates Human god and by instinct as a whole we decide acceptable behavior. We determine who is good and who is bad and by body language, Clicks groans moans and secret meaning in words spoken the language is transmitted from human to human . Music is a unifying force that plays a big roll of inseminating acceptable behavior and by the popularity the message is rejected or accepted.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
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not when you consider creation, and that what makes the deity "good" is the same law that we're subject to.
 
I have a neighbour who is quite nuts. He cannot distinguish between reality and his own imaginings. I suspect that this trait is actually more common than we think and is especially common among the religious.

In the beginning man created God. And then the politicians took over, and God became a tool for the manipulation of the populace.
 
Mr Hamtastic:

Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
Click to expand...

This point was put forward originally by Plato. It is a good one to consider.

Lori:

Lori_7 said:
not when you consider creation, and that what makes the deity "good" is the same law that we're subject to.
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So the deity is subject to some higher law that governs him/her/it?
 
Lori:

So, going back to the original question, do you think things are good or evil because God says they are, or are they good or evil independently of God? Or is there some other option?
 
James R said:
Lori:

So, going back to the original question, do you think things are good or evil because God says they are?
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yes, according to the law that governs creation, which is a part of god. "the father".
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
Click to expand...

It depends whether you are talking about gods (ie. demigods), or God.
 
Lori-so what you are saying is that God bows to some overarching law of good and evil. If God creates good and evil, then God could indeed decide that murder was good and it would be good. If God is forced to be good, with his knowledge or without, then where does this law come from?
 
Good is good. (Not really one of my greatest sayings).

God is out of the picture because 1) Made up, and 2) Beings, like God, cannot be fundamental (first).

So, no use citing God.
 
The concept of good and evil comes from human culture. There are some things almost all cultures agree are good, and some things almost all cultures agree are bad. And there are some things that are borderline.

None of which has anything to do with deity. In the beginning Man created God. And Man decided upon God's attributes, and Man invented God's commandments, according the cultural values of the Men at the time who wrote down that stuff.

Primitive tribal leaders of the Old Testament invented a vengeful God who commanded them to kill their enemies, and rape their enemy's wives, and kill homosexuals and adulteresses etc. A somewhat more enlightened Yeshua ben Yosef invented laws that prevented the Jews from upsetting the autocratic Romans, and helped them to live in peace. A more angry Mohammed invented laws requiring his followers to fight against their enemies and kill those who threatened Mohammed's teachings.

Religious laws are always reflections of the prejudices and cultural values prevalent at the time and place where they are invented.
 
Good post, Skeptical. Morals, codes, and laws look just as they should look, as composed by human culture. For example, stealing does not go over very well and so naturally it was codified against.
 
Lori said:
James R said:
Then if God suddenly decided that murder was good, it would be. Right?
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sure, but then maybe god wouldn't be.
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But he would be, by definition. If whatever God says is good, and God says "I am good", then God is good no matter what he says or does.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
Click to expand...

According to the bible, Jesus says: Only ONE knows what is good. So the christian perspective would be that God decides what is good. As an additional all Chrisitan and Hebrew laws made sense socially. There are other issues that transcend mere social issues and these are normally the objections some would have against his Goodness.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
Consider this:

If a deity is considered a "good" deity, and it is expected that this deity will not act outside of their "goodness", then what makes the deity "good"? If, on the other hand, a deity declares that what they do or say is good and this is the entire substance of what makes it good, then doesn't good become meaningless, and take evil with it for the same reasons?
Click to expand...
f


Why would the diety act outside of their nature (goodness)?
If they did, then why are they considered good?

I think to be "good" requires good intelligence, to see and know things as they are, the ability to discriminate between what's real, and what isn't.

A diety would cite the source of their nature (God), declaring that that is the source of all goodness.


jan.
 
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