Is society corrupt or is conservative christianity corrupt?

Exploradora

Registered Senior Member
Among religious conservatives, the main current topics of greatest concern appear to be restricting equal rights for gays and lesbians, including same-sex marriage, and abortion access. Mark Poole of ProdigalSheep.com attempted to quantify these concerns by searching the Focus on the Family web site. He found:

2,199 results for the words "homosexual" and "gay" (more than the number of mentions for "Jesus"),
1,355 for "abortion"

as compared with only:

342 to "compassion",
254 to "mercy",
232 to "minimum wage",
154 to "poverty",
203 to "AIDS",
81 to "Katrina",
39 to "tsunami"
12 to "Darfur". 1
http://www.religioustolerance.org/schlibcens.htm

I found this interesting because it points out the absolute insanity surrounding conservative religion in todays society. In the bible Jesus seems to be talking about loving your neighbor, helping the disinfranchised, and forgiving others. Why do people, good people, seem to fall for the idea that gays and feminists are the biggest threat to society? Is society really corrupt, or is conservative christianity the true corrupter?
 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/schlibcens.htm

I found this interesting because it points out the absolute insanity surrounding conservative religion in todays society. In the bible Jesus seems to be talking about loving your neighbor, helping the disinfranchised, and forgiving others. Why do people, good people, seem to fall for the idea that gays and feminists are the biggest threat to society? Is society really corrupt, or is conservative christianity the true corrupter?

It's because the "dark side" of the bible;the nasty things like approval of rape,slavery,extreme intolerance,excluding others etc ,appeals to people that have their own agenda of ignorance and prejudice.
People like this are not apt to have a desire to worship at the temple of Isis or another god/goddess like figure that represents more inclusiveness and love for all and eventual salvation for all.

Ironically, many conservatives fall back and concentrate on the harshness of the OT rather than many of the finer teachings of Jesus from the NT. Jesus with many of these people,not all of course, unfortunately, just represents their salvation from Hell and they really do not wish to embrace the love and compassion part (or very little anyways).
 
Why do people, good people, seem to fall for the idea that gays and feminists are the biggest threat to society?

How many of those "good people" do you suppose there are? What percentage of the population?

You obviously have some data on that, because you then went on to say, "Is society really corrupt, or is conservative christianity the true corrupter?" Which seems to automatically jump to the idea that those few people/extremists make up the "society".

Baron Max
 
How many of those "good people" do you suppose there are? What percentage of the population?
what?

You obviously have some data on that, because you then went on to say, "Is society really corrupt, or is conservative christianity the true corrupter?" Which seems to automatically jump to the idea that those few people/extremists make up the "society".
again, what? Did you read my post? Please explain exactly what you are talking about, because to me it sounds like a bunch of bullshit.
 
what?

again, what? Did you read my post? Please explain exactly what you are talking about, because to me it sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

You're equating a few, a very few, fundamentalists with the idea of society. Those few fundamentalists do not make up "the society" ...as your original post seems to complain about.

Baron Max
 
You're equating a few, a very few, fundamentalists with the idea of society. Those few fundamentalists do not make up "the society" ...as your original post seems to complain about.

Baron Max

Actually, if you read my post you would notice that I am pitting society against conservative christianity. My post cited a survey of "focus on the family", a conservative christian think tank. To suggest that conservative christianity does not strongly influence modern society is ludarcris. 53% of the U.S. population does not believe in evolution. Evangelical Christianity dominates the religious landscape throughout much of the U.S., most prominately in the southern U.S. and the western U.S.
 
You're equating a few, a very few, fundamentalists with the idea of society. Those few fundamentalists do not make up "the society" ...as your original post seems to complain about.

Baron Max

How would you like being gay and in the southern states? You'll find it's not a minority of people who are hateful as a result of religion.
 
How would you like being gay and in the southern states?

I wouldn't want to be gay in any fuckin' state or area of the world!!!!!

And besides, what the fuck does that have to do with anything related to this thread??????

Baron Max
 
I wouldn't want to be gay in any fuckin' state or area of the world!!!!!

And besides, what the fuck does that have to do with anything related to this thread??????

Baron Max

You said that people who have a hated towards gays, abortions, gay marriage etc did not reflect society as a whole, when in america, those views make up a rather large majority.

That's what it has to do with this thread, tit-face.
 
Maybe the study is flawed. It could be the the people that bitch the most spend a lot of time on the site bitching whereas people who care are no on the internet but in a soup kitchen dishing out food.

I know a Buddhist from Singapore that wouldn't think about spending any time at all on the internet bitching about homosexuals (and I am pretty sure he thinks there is something not quite right with homosexuals) or whatever but he spends a lot of time at a soup kitchen. Like every Friday night, Sunday afternoon. (funny it's a Xian soup kitchen). Anyway, he would not be represented in such a poll and I suspect the same is true for many Xians who want to help people.
 
You said that people who have a hated towards gays, abortions, gay marriage etc did not reflect society as a whole, when in america, those views make up a rather large majority.

Nope, ya' read it all wrong. The original post asked the question, "Why do people, good people, seem to fall for the idea that gays and feminists are the biggest threat to society?" Notice the term "a threat to society"??? It says nothing at all about hating gays, or being against gay marriage, etc. It asked about the "threat" to society.

That's what it has to do with this thread, tit-face.

tit-face? Is that an insult to a fellow member of the forums? Should you be reported for using such language, such insults?

Baron Max
 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/schlibcens.htm

2,199 results for the words "homosexual" and "gay" (more than the number of mentions for "Jesus"),
1,355 for "abortion"

as compared with only:

342 to "compassion",
254 to "mercy",
232 to "minimum wage",
154 to "poverty",
203 to "AIDS",
81 to "Katrina",
39 to "tsunami"
12 to "Darfur". 1

I found this interesting because it points out the absolute insanity surrounding conservative religion in todays society. In the bible Jesus seems to be talking about loving your neighbor, helping the disinfranchised, and forgiving others. Why do people, good people, seem to fall for the idea that gays and feminists are the biggest threat to society? Is society really corrupt, or is conservative christianity the true corrupter?

This is easy to interpret. The issues that appeared most are the two issues that the athiest society is trying to have established as acceptable and good practices and lifestyles.

The other topics of concern are not generally topics of contention with the greater community.

So the issues that are being contested are the issues that are naturally talked about the most.

People are not going to debate about the pro's and cons of compassion and mercy are they?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
You're equating a few, a very few, fundamentalists with the idea of society. Those few fundamentalists do not make up "the society" ...as your original post seems to complain about.

Baron Max

LOL read it again and please be embarrassed.
 
People are not going to debate about the pro's and cons of compassion and mercy are they?

There is an actually debate going on at focus on the family?


Baron- I am gone from this board for 3 months, come back and you are STILL hijacking my threads. You have officially ignored the topic or spirit of my thread and brought it onto an entirely different topic. Please stop.
 
Interesting numbers

Exploradora

In the history of Christianity, few if any believers understood what they were about. I mean, think about Christ's version of the Golden Rule, and think about Matthew 25. It would seem that those who, in ages past, put the torch to their neighbors as witches, would hope others would do the same. Of course, they were also confident that they were not witches, and therefore the others would not do the same. The reason they did these awful things to other human beings is simple: they thought they had to in order to get into Heaven: "If I don't save your soul--" (e.g. by setting you on fire) "--then Jesus Christ won't save mine."

Another aspect of it is something that comes up in ethnic and gender considerations in the United States. For most people, equality is a step up from their prior condition; for the ruling classes, though, it is a step down. The idea of being equal to their neighbors is abhorrent, and violates the privilege they are accustomed to. This is why conservative Christians complain about being oppressed. Now add to that the "Christian math" of equality. I explained it recently, but I don't remember which topic. Its easer to ... er ... anyway: if there's five of us at the table, a Christian, a Jew, an atheist, a Hindu, and a Muslim, equality suggests that we all get one vote, or 20%, right? Except the conservative Christians seem to look at it as "Christian" and "infidel", so instead of 20% of the vote, they want 50%. One for you, one for me; one for him, one for me; one for her, one for me; one for them, one for me ... and so on.

It's not so much that they want to be evil, but as their traditions suggest, they just can't help it.

As to the specific focus on homosexuality, it's something they can use to thwart progress. Among the right wing, the conservative Christians are still a minority, and they are the most effective version of a true "opposition party" in American society. Their job, essentially, is to keep throwing monkeys at the wrench, and demanding that society come screeching to a halt in order to accommodate them. On the one hand, the focus on homosexuality easily scares voters who don't understand their gay neighbors. To the other, they're seeking a sublimated incestuous gratification by focusing so much on the idea of "the children". Their focus on children might seem to suggest sublimated pedophilia, but that's not quite it. Parents wish to guide every aspect of their children's lives; after all, they are so instructed by their faith. And that includes sexuality. Once upon a time, families decided for their daughters whom to marry. Now, it's enough for them to take comfort in the idea that they get to decide who f@cks their daughters. Frankly, I find it rather creepy. To wit, a co-worker, several years ago, knocked up his girlfriend. When he found out he had a daughter on the way, I listened to him obsess over protecting her. It was down to when she could date, what he was going to do to the first boy who defiled her, what kind of underwear he would let her wear .... Absolutely creepy. Fast-forward, and now I have a four year-old daughter. I'm aware of such questions; she's not wearing thongs any time soon, but I'm not going to spend any real thought on such details. I'll deal with whatever comes up when it comes up. And if she'd rather chow chick, I'm not going to worry about it. Literally, I find that whole Christian obsession with family and sexuality creepy. My daughter's maternal grandparents are freaky Christians, and about the third time I heard from her mother what the grandparents thought about this and that having to do with sex, I said, "Whoever wants to step up and sexualize my daughter's outlook can answer to me." If something I do or fail to do screws up her outlook, I'll deal with it. The breadth and power of sublimation is huge with the Christian bunch. They believe they were born into sin. Rather than getting over it and moving on with life, they sublimate their sins and trust in Jesus. And this eternal obsession with sexuality is part of the outcome of that trust. It's what faith brings.

Elsewhere in her discussion of Helms's legislation, Butler delineates the same slide from homosexuality to pedophilia to sadomasochism that informs Measure 9:

"The exploitation of children" comes [immediately after sadomasochism in the text of Helms's legislation], at which point I begin to wonder: what reasons are there for grouping these three categories together? Do they lead to each other, as if the breaking of one taboo necessitates a virtual riot of perversion? Or is there, implicit in the sequencing and syntax of this legal text, a figure of the homosexual, apparently male, who practices sadomasochism and preys on young boys, or who practices sadomasochism with young boys, a homosexuality which is perhaps defined as sadomasochism and the exploitation of children? Perhaps this is an effort to define restrictively the sexual exploiter of children as the sadomasochistic male homosexual in order, quite conveniently, to locate the source of child sexual abuse outside the home, safeguarding the family as the unregulated sexual property of the father? (Butler 116)​

Clearly, this construction of the family has a long history in the American New Right. To take Butler's interpretation a bit further, the family may be said to be consolidated, if not constituted, by this very fantasy. Indeed, the "ideological rearguard action" (Watney 43) which is the family in late twentieth-century America can be seen as the product of a series of similar fabrications. The discourse of "Family Values" rarely articulates what these values might be, but spends a great deal of time asserting that various people or social formations (homosexuals, feminism, single motherhood) are a threat to them ....
(Kent)

Ain't that just a little creepy? But remember: they truly believe they were born into sin. They quite literally can't help themselves; for some things, it's best to trust in Jesus. Or something like that.
____________________

Notes:

Kent, Le'a. "'Abnormal, Wrong, Unnatural and Perverse': Taking the Measure (9) of the Closet". See http://cultronix.eserver.org/kent/
 
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