Is Jesus less than God?

w1z4rd

w1z4rd

Valued Senior Member
Im listening to a Standford lecture on Youtube by the author of the book "Misquoting Jesus". I am really amazed at the information that he lets us know and I didnt know there were do many different versions of the NT and there were so many copy errors... however he mentions an interesting verse that definitely seems to deprive Jesus of the title of omnipotence:

Matthew 24:36-44 (New International Version)

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

Im just curious as how Christian apologetics who see Jesus and God as equals and the same thing can explain this sentence.
 
Try answering omniscience. My definition is knowing all that you can know. For instance if a human knows everything a human can know, then I would call that person omniscient. But that omniscient person would not have more knowledge than God. If i can only have five pennies and I have five pennies then that would be 5/5ths. Which would be 100%. But if you could have six, and indeed you had six then you would have 6/6ths. Which is also 100%. You would have more, but we would both have a 100%.

So Jesus was still omniscient.

His son,

Warrior61 <><
 
Warrior61 said:
Try answering omniscience. My definition is knowing all that you can know. For instance if a human knows everything a human can know, then I would call that person omniscient. But that omniscient person would not have more knowledge than God. If i can only have five pennies and I have five pennies then that would be 5/5ths. Which would be 100%. But if you could have six, and indeed you had six then you would have 6/6ths. Which is also 100%. You would have more, but we would both have a 100%.

So Jesus was still omniscient.

His son,

Warrior61 <><
Click to expand...

This has to be by far the worst answer to a theological question I have ever heard.
You'd have been better off arguing that the word incarnate was bounded by the restrictions put upon mankind's physical essence from creation, thus true acknowledgment of existential principals would be incomprehensible. You didn't...

In case you forgot...Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11:13-21. or Numbers 15:37-41.

Or the nearing 100 times in the Tanakh (Septuagint/Prophets) that it states "No one will ever understand my ways."
 
w1z4rd said:
Im listening to a Standford lecture on Youtube by the author of the book "Misquoting Jesus". I am really amazed at the information that he lets us know and I didnt know there were do many different versions of the NT and there were so many copy errors... however he mentions an interesting verse that definitely seems to deprive Jesus of the title of omnipotence:

Matthew 24:36-44 (New International Version)

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

Im just curious as how Christian apologetics who see Jesus and God as equals and the same thing can explain this sentence.
Click to expand...
I can categorically state that jesus and god are equals, it is impossible to misquote jesus or god as both are imaginary concepts, however it is possible to misquote the bible as there are so many different versions. but what difference would it make there just books of fiction.
Quote mining is only really bad when when you misquote somebody who actually lives or had lived.
 
w1z4rd said:
Im listening to a Standford lecture on Youtube by the author of the book "Misquoting Jesus". I am really amazed at the information that he lets us know and I didnt know there were do many different versions of the NT and there were so many copy errors... however he mentions an interesting verse that definitely seems to deprive Jesus of the title of omnipotence:

Matthew 24:36-44 (New International Version)

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

Im just curious as how Christian apologetics who see Jesus and God as equals and the same thing can explain this sentence.
Click to expand...

G'morning w1z4rd!

Most of the earliest manuscripts do not contain the words 'Nor the Son.'

There is definitely a Hierarchy in Heaven, but this verse won't prove it because it's veracity is in question in theological academic circles.

We're also told 'The head of the woman is the man. The Head of the man is Christ, and the Head of the Christ is God.'

There are many other such verses.

To Whom did Jesus pray and petition in the Garden of Gethsemane if not His Father and ours. 'I go to My God and to your God.' Why would Jesus ask for the cup to pass from Him 'If it be possible,' and say 'Let not My Will, but Thy Will be done'? Why two opposing Wills if Jesus is The Father? :shrug:

I could go on all day with this but I neeeeeed sleeeeeep.

Yours, surrendering to, and trusting in Jesus - Jesse.
 
Jesus knows he is he will never be God, so for him to be less would be irrelevant due to that fact even Jesus wanted to touch/accomplish God.
 
Warrior61 said:
For instance if a human knows everything a human can know, then I would call that person omniscient.
Click to expand...

Would any human ever know everything that a human can know though? That would mean they would have to know eeeeverything and there are many things no one knows. Also that would mean they would have to know everything about everyone in the world too, and everything about every single thing in the world. Ouch, loooads of information to cram into one little brain.
 
laladopi said:
Jesus knows he is he will never be God, so for him to be less would be irrelevant due to that fact even Jesus wanted to touch/accomplish God.
Click to expand...

If Jesus ever decides to come back again for whatever reason, will he be wearing a suit or a basic white robe and sandels? And if you/we were ever to see him again on the streets of our city, would we recognize him or just ignore him? I guess maybe the best thing to do is just to wait for the sound of trumphets and the fluttering of wings. If you hear that, then I suppose all bets are off! Right?
 
I think you also have to bear in mind the quote by Jesus:

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Click to expand...

One has to imagine (if one accepts the modern day Christian orthodoxy) that God had not in fact forsaken Jesus, but in his agony Jesus believed it to be the case. One possible reconciliation between that sort of passage and omniscience is that Jesus was not omniscient during his period on Earth. His being sent here to live as a man may have meant depriving him the use, to at least some extent, of his godly powers.
 
Accoring to scripture Jesus is lesser than god.
Jesus is refered to as a mighty God....
God is refered to as the Almighty.
 
w1z4rd said:
Im just curious as how Christian apologetics who see Jesus and God as equals and the same thing can explain this sentence.
Click to expand...
you sort of answered your own question in the post by stating there are several different versions of the bible.

the only authorized version i'm aware of is the king james version.
the new international version is not authorized.
 
CatherineW said:
Would any human ever know everything that a human can know though? That would mean they would have to know eeeeverything and there are many things no one knows. Also that would mean they would have to know everything about everyone in the world too, and everything about every single thing in the world. Ouch, loooads of information to cram into one little brain.
Click to expand...

I am bound by my initial argument, and also believe to say that yes a human can. Jesus did.

His son,

Warrior61 <><
 
CheskiChips said:
This has to be by far the worst answer to a theological question I have ever heard.
Click to expand...

Man your critique has really made me rethink my whole philosophy.

You'd have been better off arguing that the word incarnate was bounded by the restrictions put upon mankind's physical essence from creation, thus true acknowledgment of existential principals would be incomprehensible.
Click to expand...

But what about the existential principals Jesus did know? Also I can't help but ask would I really had been better off?

In case you forgot...Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11:13-21. or Numbers 15:37-41.

Or the nearing 100 times in the Tanakh (Septuagint/Prophets) that it states "No one will ever understand my ways."
Click to expand...

Um the above quote is from God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. None of these references refute my argument. All you did was just rate it. At least attempt to properly disprove it.

His son,

Warrior61 <><
 
w1z4rd said:
Im listening to a Standford lecture on Youtube by the author of the book "Misquoting Jesus". I am really amazed at the information that he lets us know and I didnt know there were do many different versions of the NT and there were so many copy errors... however he mentions an interesting verse that definitely seems to deprive Jesus of the title of omnipotence:

Matthew 24:36-44 (New International Version)

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

Im just curious as how Christian apologetics who see Jesus and God as equals and the same thing can explain this sentence.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. If you believe this, you know nothing about the true nature of the triune God. Each part of the Godhead is not less than each other, as they all form one body.
 
leopold99 said:
you sort of answered your own question in the post by stating there are several different versions of the bible.

the only authorized version i'm aware of is the king james version.
the new international version is not authorized.
Click to expand...

Well that is most likely the most inaccurate Bible I have come across to be honest. It has more of the translation errors than all the others I have checked out. The theologians I talk to treat it very carefully.
 
White Rhyno said:
Incorrect. If you believe this, you know nothing about the true nature of the triune God. Each part of the Godhead is not less than each other, as they all form one body.
Click to expand...

So humans have assumed. The trinity is an assumption based on a forgery. Its amazing how many people know "the true nature of God" TM. Everyone wants the monopoly! LOL!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top