Reading on the facebook group regarding Sarah Silverman's style of comedy, one fan stated that he also laughed his ass off(quite an epidemic)while listening to Sarah Silverman, and that it was OK because she was Jewish. In a slightly related story, my asian friend was shouting about how much he hated himself for being asian(kidding). He was sent to the office for being hateful to all asians. Eh?
Is it really ok because she is Jewish?
- Thread starter Betrayer0fHope
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Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
There is a fine line between wryly commenting on racism by displaying it in humor, anmd reinforcing racist beliefs in a humorous way. "All in the Family" was the class ic example. The point was to depict Archie Bunker as racist and wrong, by showing how stupid his racism was. It was pretty well known that many people, however, liked the show (and Archie) because they basically agreed with him.
Dave Chappelle stopped his show because he was afraid that he was crossing the line between ironically making fun of racism (by depicting characters who were racist or minorities who fit racist stereotypes) and simply validating racist beliefs, and felt pressured to go more in the direction of the latter, because the audience responded to it.
Silverman is in the same tough spot, though, to me, she actually seems like she probably is racist in a number of ways. Maybe she is not and I am just completely convinced by her schtick, but I can't see that she's striving for "irony" most of the time, in the way Chappelle clearly was.
On her making fun of Jews, I assume that is ironic. It would be unusual (though not impossible) for her to be an anti-semetic jew). so I give her the benefit of the doubt. Her anti-jewish material I assume is not really intended to be anti-jewish. Her anti-asian material (which she hits pretty heavily) I am less sure about.
It's also why I completely understand why whites can't use the n-word and blacks can. It's highly unlikely that blacks intend the word to be disparaging of their own race, in toto. It's very much more likely that a white person using it means it in that way. As such, it is not that there is a double standard, but rather a single "don't disparage a whole race" standard that blacks can be deemed to more easily meet than whites in relation to that word.
Dave Chappelle stopped his show because he was afraid that he was crossing the line between ironically making fun of racism (by depicting characters who were racist or minorities who fit racist stereotypes) and simply validating racist beliefs, and felt pressured to go more in the direction of the latter, because the audience responded to it.
Silverman is in the same tough spot, though, to me, she actually seems like she probably is racist in a number of ways. Maybe she is not and I am just completely convinced by her schtick, but I can't see that she's striving for "irony" most of the time, in the way Chappelle clearly was.
On her making fun of Jews, I assume that is ironic. It would be unusual (though not impossible) for her to be an anti-semetic jew). so I give her the benefit of the doubt. Her anti-jewish material I assume is not really intended to be anti-jewish. Her anti-asian material (which she hits pretty heavily) I am less sure about.
It's also why I completely understand why whites can't use the n-word and blacks can. It's highly unlikely that blacks intend the word to be disparaging of their own race, in toto. It's very much more likely that a white person using it means it in that way. As such, it is not that there is a double standard, but rather a single "don't disparage a whole race" standard that blacks can be deemed to more easily meet than whites in relation to that word.
Yes, it's OK because she's Jewish.
Alright, maybe it's my fault, but you guys are taking this way to specifically. I meant, in general, is it ok to excuse a person from racism or whatever because they belong to a minority or belong to that race/religion/creed/other? I used the example because, at the time, I found it comical.
Yes it is. They are talking about themselves, so that's fine.
It's assumed you aren't going to insult yourself, and that joking about it is just a joke.
Then I guess it depends on wether it is funny, or intended to be funny, as opposed to a racist screed.
Thats debatable too. Comedy is sometimes a good vent for unresolved issues. In India we say the most important man in the kings court was the joker, because only he could laugh at the king and get away with it. I think many people explore their own ideology in comedy. Its a serious business.
Note for Spidergoat; general comment
I would only pick the nit that some folks think their racist screeds are funny. And, yes, a few of them actually are.
The best way I can explain the general difference, though, is to think of your mother. Or your sister. Or your wife. Or ... well, you get the point.
I had a friend in high school who fought viciously with her mother. Truly, these were battles of legendary proportion. Driving her home once, we stopped a few blocks away from her house so that she could vomit in anticipation of the clash that was about to occur. An angst-ridden, infuriated teenager, picking her mother's fingernail out of the flesh of her arm, would curse and hiss and tell her friends everything she thought was wrong with her bitch of a mother.
One day, though, as she argued with a "boyfriend" (such as it is), he said something about her "cunt of a mother", and that was it. The argument was over, the fight was on, and in the end it is lucky that nobody was actually injured.
The point is that whatever else we might think of our own, we generally do not accept from others such disparagement when it is solely intended to hurt or denigrate.
The broader consideration that I would put in front of people is the difference between Jewish humor and a Jew joke: "A hundred and nine times" is Jewish humor. "Because air is free" is a Jew joke.
Spidergoat said:
I would only pick the nit that some folks think their racist screeds are funny. And, yes, a few of them actually are.
• • •
The best way I can explain the general difference, though, is to think of your mother. Or your sister. Or your wife. Or ... well, you get the point.
I had a friend in high school who fought viciously with her mother. Truly, these were battles of legendary proportion. Driving her home once, we stopped a few blocks away from her house so that she could vomit in anticipation of the clash that was about to occur. An angst-ridden, infuriated teenager, picking her mother's fingernail out of the flesh of her arm, would curse and hiss and tell her friends everything she thought was wrong with her bitch of a mother.
One day, though, as she argued with a "boyfriend" (such as it is), he said something about her "cunt of a mother", and that was it. The argument was over, the fight was on, and in the end it is lucky that nobody was actually injured.
The point is that whatever else we might think of our own, we generally do not accept from others such disparagement when it is solely intended to hurt or denigrate.
The broader consideration that I would put in front of people is the difference between Jewish humor and a Jew joke: "A hundred and nine times" is Jewish humor. "Because air is free" is a Jew joke.
I actually agree with you on most of this, but there are a couple of points I contend...
First, I did not know Dave Chappelle left his show for that reason. Do you have a source to back that up with?
Second, we are far too PC in the Western world, and I think comedians like Silverman serve to buck that trend. You need to lighten up, dude. She hits on every culture, every color, and every faith, and because of that, she gets to show us just how funny some of these stereotypes are. And what I think you miss is that Sarah is actually portraying an Archie Bunker-like character when she's on stage. I mean, listen to her act; she's playing a total moron up there, and it's not just about race.
And I completely disagree with the idea of black people "owning" the N Word. I mean, hey, they can use it all they want, and I really have no taste for it myself, but the double standard is outrageously ridiculous. Yeah, white people still say it in a negative way, but so do blacks! And what about when whites arent' using it in a negative way? Such as singing along to a rap tune (not that you actually sing along...)? If you don't want it said to you, then don't say it yourself. I'm so sick of hearing Jesse Jackson call for the jobs of a person for being rumored to be racist, then him getting caught without knowing the microphones were still on saying something about "the niggers". It's pathetic. Even their social leaders can't help but use the word.
You're bordering on what many would call racist, JDawg.
Many people would be retarded to call me that. Read what I wrote, then reconsider that stance. I'm talking about double standards, not race. If a white person can call another white person a honky, then a black man should be able to call him that, as well. Or, more preferably, nobody says it at all. But if one group is going to cry about the other one using a word, then perhaps that group shouldn't use it in every form of popular culture they are involved in.
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
There was more than one reason, but, from Oprah:
http://www.oprah.com/slideshow/oprahshow/oprahshow1_ss_20060203/5