Is it okay for a christian to drink wine, beer and mixed drinks?

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: Had a friend who happens to be a christian pay me a visit the other day. Knowing full well her religious bearings, I nevertheless offered her a glass of wine. Not to my surprise, she refused. She went on to say how alcohol was condemned in the bible, and those who imbibe will burn in hell. I apologized, and poured us both some Diet Coke, knowing that if I drank in front of her that would be offensive to her like it says in Romans, I think. So, we got onto the subject of alcohol, and I reminded her that Jesus drank wine and offered it to his guests at the last supper. She concluded that was just grape juice as was the water Jesus turned at the wedding at Cana. I disagreed. I told her the bible said "wine," so it had to be "wine." Grape juice would have been relatively easy to come by and Jesus wouldn't have had to work a miracle to get some grape juice. As I see it, the miracle was in the instanteous fermentation of grape juice.

My question to the experts on board: Does the bible condone the drinking of wine or not? I say it does. Comments?

 

[Syzygys]

In the Catholic church they serve wine as the symbol of blood...

 

[Medicine*Woman]

In the Catholic church they serve wine as the symbol of blood...

*************
M*W: I was once catholic, and I remember the belief to be that wine was mystically transubstantiated into Jesus's actual blood. It was not symbolic to the Church, even though it technically was, at least to me.

Catholics could do everything as long as it was in moderation... a little bit of this... a little bit of that... a little glass of wine... a little crust of bread... a little molestation...

 

[John99]

*************
M*W: I was once catholic, and I remember the belief to be that wine was mystically transubstantiated into Jesus's actual blood. It was not symbolic to the Church, even though it technically was, at least to me.

Catholics could do everything as long as it was in moderation... a little bit of this... a little bit of that... a little glass of wine... a little crust of bread... a little molestation...

[EDIT:REMOVED before someone gives me a star card], there are molesters in (almost)every family, every profession, every culture, every religion.

I know that born again Christians DONT drink alcohol, which is where you may be confused.

 

[hug-a-tree]

... a little molestation...

Yeah, I don't think so.

 

[hug-a-tree]

Only Chrisitians that I know that totally are not okay with drinking are Mormons.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

[EDIT:REMOVED before someone gives me a star card], there are molesters in (almost)every family, every profession, every culture, every religion.

I know that born again Christians DONT drink alcohol, which is where you may be confused.

*************
M*W: You are correct. Child molestation crosses every demographic. I read statistics a few years ago that 95% of all (ALL) females had been sexually molested to a degree, from off-color jokes all the way to vaginal penetration and/or sodomy. The statistics were somewhat lower for boys, because the incidences get reported less than for girls. Crossing the barriers of child molestation also includes mothers, grandmothers, aunts, and other female associates of the child, both boys and girls. Oftentimes drugs and alcohol played a role in the perp's action.

Lately, in Houston, TX, we've had a rash of female teachers molesting young boys. I can't understand what would overcome them to make them want to do something like that. There's also been a couple of female teachers molesting young girls. Then there's been some 'consensual' events. They say it's hard to find good teachers... but the teachers who have been caught were respected by their students and other teachers! I just don't understand it at all.

Back to christians drinking alcohol. You're saying if they're 'born again,' they don't drink or the don't WANT to drink? And what would happen if a 'born again' christian say had a beer on a Friday night? What would happen to his/her soul? I'm curious. How many christians on this forum believe it is okay to drink alcoholic beverages and still be christian? (Disclaimer: I'm not advocating there is a soul, but just assuming a christian believes in the soul).

 

[Prince_James]

I know a priest who loves Scotch.

No alcoholic drink is banned in Christianity. Nor is it held to be immoral to -drink-, just to become a -drunkard- in the Bible.

Remember Solomon's:

"A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes merry" (Ecc. 10:19)

 

[Prince_James]

Medicine Woman:

I read statistics a few years ago that 95% of all (ALL) females had been sexually molested to a degree, from off-color jokes all the way to vaginal penetration and/or sodomy.

Off-colour jokes are hardly sexual abuse.

 

[spidergoat]

The bible is full of references to wine, water and other drinks weren't that safe. On the other hand, Jesus also warned about intoxication.

Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and
I appeared to them in the flesh. I found all of them intoxicated;
I found none of them thirsty. And My soul became afflicted for
the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do
not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too
they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are
intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will
repent. G of T

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Medicine Woman:

Off-colour jokes are hardly sexual abuse.

*************
M*W: That depends on the situation. I'm not a prude, so I like an off-color joke... depending on who's telling it. Children should never be told off-color jokes. Ever. In the workplace, off-color jokes should not happen (remember Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas?). But, technically speaking, telling a sexual joke can be considered as sexual harassment or abuse.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: I, myself, like a glass of wine or three, so I certainly don't discriminate against those who share my love of the nectar of the rotten grape. I just wonder about those 'born agains' who imbibe liberally. What is the real status of their presumed salvation?

 

[Adstar]

Drinking of wine is ok but becoming drunk is not ok.

Of course Jesus drank wine and His apostles liked some too. Its just another case of a tradition created by man going completely and obviously against the clear words of the Bible.

Ephesians 5:
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Chatha]

Not only did early christians condone wine, but beer brewing and wine making was practised and perfected by monasteries. However, monks were ironically the scientists and literates of the day, so they probably had no choice but to be the brew masters. The reason modern christians refrain from alcky is because alcohol is a gateway drug, sooner or later your desires will triplicate or drastically decrease in number; constant alcohol regimen usually leads to some form of psycho-social disintegration.

 

[John99]

*************
M*W: You are correct. Child molestation crosses every demographic. I read statistics a few years ago that 95% of all (ALL) females had been sexually molested to a degree, from off-color jokes all the way to vaginal penetration and/or sodomy. The statistics were somewhat lower for boys, because the incidences get reported less than for girls. Crossing the barriers of child molestation also includes mothers, grandmothers, aunts, and other female associates of the child, both boys and girls. Oftentimes drugs and alcohol played a role in the perp's action.

Lately, in Houston, TX, we've had a rash of female teachers molesting young boys. I can't understand what would overcome them to make them want to do something like that. There's also been a couple of female teachers molesting young girls. Then there's been some 'consensual' events. They say it's hard to find good teachers... but the teachers who have been caught were respected by their students and other teachers! I just don't understand it at all.

Back to christians drinking alcohol. You're saying if they're 'born again,' they don't drink or the don't WANT to drink? And what would happen if a 'born again' christian say had a beer on a Friday night? What would happen to his/her soul? I'm curious. How many christians on this forum believe it is okay to drink alcoholic beverages and still be christian? (Disclaimer: I'm not advocating there is a soul, but just assuming a christian believes in the soul).

no big deal, sorry i came off the way i did. :shrug: cant explain it:shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

*************
M*W: Had a friend who happens to be a christian pay me a visit the other day. Knowing full well her religious bearings, I nevertheless offered her a glass of wine. Not to my surprise, she refused. She went on to say how alcohol was condemned in the bible, and those who imbibe will burn in hell. I apologized, and poured us both some Diet Coke, knowing that if I drank in front of her that would be offensive to her like it says in Romans, I think. So, we got onto the subject of alcohol, and I reminded her that Jesus drank wine and offered it to his guests at the last supper. She concluded that was just grape juice as was the water Jesus turned at the wedding at Cana. I disagreed. I told her the bible said "wine," so it had to be "wine." Grape juice would have been relatively easy to come by and Jesus wouldn't have had to work a miracle to get some grape juice. As I see it, the miracle was in the instanteous fermentation of grape juice.

My question to the experts on board: Does the bible condone the drinking of wine or not? I say it does. Comments?

-----“East-West Dialogues” Satyaraja Dasa Adhikari

Rev. Hart : …. Incidentally, as an abstainer of intoxicants, you will be happy to know that wine, which is now distributed as the blood of Christ, was not always used in the transubstantiation process. At least that is what certain reputable scholars are saying. Originally, according to one view, it was grape juice.
In biblical times, you see, all fruit of the vine was called wine, whether it was fermented or not. This is what they are claiming now. There are thirteen different words used in Hebrew and Chaldee, and four in Greek. The common word in Greek was oinos. This Greek word corresponds to yayin or yain in Hebrew, vinum in Latin, and wine in English. However in classical biblical usage these words simply refer to grape juice.
In the Septuagint, the Greek version of the bible, the Hebrew word for grape juice is translated thirty three times as the Greek word oinos. It is also used to denote other kinds of drinks, such as lotus fruits and dates.

SD : Is this your opinion, or can you cite other scholars and authorities on the subject?

Rev. Hart: Oh of course. This is almost common knowledge among scholars of Old Testament. According to Professor Samuel Lee of Cambridge, the root of this Hebrew word I’ve been discussing is yain, or wine. But even Professor Lee admits that in biblical times the word did not refer to the intoxicating liquor made by fermentation. It is more referred to a thick, unintoxicating syrup produced by boiling. The boiling gave the grape juice a longer shelf life and so it became more storable. So we should not think that the early biblical prophets endorsed the use of intoxicating drink. Wine, in those days, generally referred to grape juice.

SD : So intoxicating drink was frowned upon in biblical times?

Rev. Hart : Oh definitely. We learn from the bible that intoxicating beverages are habit forming (Proverbs 23.35), result in violence (proverbs 4. 17), and distract its imbibers from God (Amos 6.6)

 

[Sarkus]

You can read anything you want into the glorious Bible.
If one starts claiming that words have changed meaning over time (as well they might) then it has some profound implications:
1. That many messages in the Bible as currently understood are not accurately translated - and as such no religion using certainly the Western translations of the Bible can be held as any authority for being the Word of their God.
2. That ANY meaning can be found among the words of the Bible - to fit whatever it is one wants to do. You want to drink alcohol - fine - then translate the word one way. You want to say alcohol is against the religion - sure - then translate it another way.

It just adds weight to the Bible being as irrelevant or as useful as the person reading it wants it to be - and as such, in my opinion, makes it weaker as a supposed authority.

 

[lightgigantic]

You can read anything you want into the glorious Bible.

therefore the general reccomendation, as with any field of knowledge, is that it is more intelligent to approach (qualified) persons established in the field (BTW - the fist step in destroying a field of knowledge is to demerit the persons established in it - hey it worked for hitler - certainly works for many an atheist too)

If one starts claiming that words have changed meaning over time (as well they might) then it has some profound implications:
1. That many messages in the Bible as currently understood are not accurately translated - and as such no religion using certainly the Western translations of the Bible can be held as any authority for being the Word of their God.

therefore practice is better than mere reading, so to approach knowledge by merely reading is not sufficient in many circumstances

2. That ANY meaning can be found among the words of the Bible - to fit whatever it is one wants to do. You want to drink alcohol - fine - then translate the word one way. You want to say alcohol is against the religion - sure - then translate it another way.

you can read anything into physics too - but such speculations will not deliver the expected result - similarly wildly speculating in theism, whether one is a theist or an atheist, doesn't achieve much

It just adds weight to the Bible being as irrelevant or as useful as the person reading it wants it to be - and as such, in my opinion, makes it weaker as a supposed authority.

Actually I agree with that statement - an unqualified person reading scripture bears as much fruit as an unqualified person reading the findings of a rocket scientist

 

[Sarkus]

Also...

WHY is it un-Christian to drink alcohol?
Rev. Hart claims that it is habit-forming, results in violence and distracts from God.

Ok - let's take each in turn:

- what is wrong with being "habit-forming"?
Is "habit-forming" bad per se?
I bite my nails - and have done since I can remember.
It does me no harm - and actually helps me calm down when I am nervous.
So is "habit-forming" bad?
No.

Apparently it "results in violence" - yet I have NEVER been involved in a fight - not before I start drinking, during my drinking, or even after getting absolutely hammered.
Alcohol does not make people violent per se - it merely reduces inhibitions.

Does alcohol "distract from God"?
Maybe - to be honest I wouldn't know.
But then if alcohol does - so does chocolate, so do holidays, so does a relaxing bath etc.


If the Bible was going to stop Christians from drinking alcohol, surely it would have started off by telling people that it actually damages the body.

But does it? I don't know for sure - but I don't think so.

Does the Bible say that marijuana is "un-Christian"?
It is less harmful than alcohol - is not habit-forming (usually it is the nicotein in the cigarettes that is the habit-former).
For that matter - does the Bible say that smoking is un-Christian?
It damages the health of the smoker and those around them.
It is certainly habit-forming.

No?

So why does the Bible pick on alcohol?
Is it because it is an out-dated piece of writing?

What other messages are people wanting to read into it to suit their religion?

 

[Sarkus]

therefore the general reccomendation, as with any field of knowledge, is that it is more intelligent to approach (qualified) persons established in the field

I am talking about the supposed "qualified" people in the field that are coming up with the many differing interpretations.

(BTW - the fist step in destroying a field of knowledge is to demerit the persons established in it - hey it worked for hitler - certainly works for many an atheist too)

Pathetic, LG. Truly pathetic.

therefore practice is better than mere reading, so to approach knowledge by merely reading is not sufficient in many circumstances

Irrelevant.
One can only practice one's religion after one knows what it is they are meant to be practicing.
If the words of the "practice" are constantly changing then practice becomes either incongruous with the (new) understanding of the scripture or meaningless.

you can read anything into physics too - but such speculations will not deliver the expected result

No you can't.
Physics is not based on some scripture laid out 2,000 years ago to which scientists apply a translation! LOL!
Your analogy falls flat on its face, LG! Pick a new one!


Physics takes prior work and expands on them, corrects them, adapts them, in order to advance knowledge.

Religion (Christianity) takes scripture from 2,000 years ago ... and translates the words to suit their end.

Actually I agree with that statement - an unqualified person reading scripture bears as much fruit as an unqualified person reading the findings of a rocket scientist

Your overlying implication in nearly all you write, LG, is that "to belive in God you need to believe in God".
It is a circular path you tread - with a self-fulfilling set of scriptures behind it. You are trapped - because you can not seem to think for yourself long enough to break out of the circle.