Is immigration ruining America?

If the immigrants are hard working then I am all for them coming. But, I hate when I see some jerk come over, get on welfare, pump out 8 kids and bitch about the culture and the government here. Gods that burns me. I don't like it much when citizens do that sort of thing, so I damn well don't like it when an immigrant does it.

I have immigrated and worked in many different countries. So I'm not against immigrants. But, I think we also need to see that immigrants are assimilated into the culture, where they add their strengths to the collective and leave their baggage in the drive.
 
A US census report states that by 2050, the percentage of whites in the USA will decrease to less than 50% of the population due to legal and illegal immigration.
Considering that the largest "minority" in the USA is Latinos, the only way the Rednecks can twist the numbers to make their point for them is to arbitrarily define Latinos as "not white." Latinos have historically been, and continue to be, the fastest-assimilating of all immigrant groups. More than one-third of the first-generation immigrants marry mainstream Americans, and even children born to two immigrants quickly merge into the mainstream. It's almost impossible to find a "third-generation Latino" except for people like Bill Richardson and Linda Ronstadt who use it to boost their careers. When I was a kid my family knew Linda Ronstadt's family (although sadly I never met her) and geeze, they absolutely did not identify themselves as Latinos!
I don't know about all of you, but it feels to me like American culture is slowly slipping away due to the changing demographic that reflects all the aliens who really have no sense of what this country is about crawling over the border.
Where do you live, South Dakota? You seem to have no personal perspective on the issue so you just repeat this Redneck bullshit you get from TV news, "The News For People Who Can't Read." There is only one immigrant group in this country whose people are not hell-bent on becoming Americans, who are not urging their children to love baseball, pizza and rap music, and that is the one immigrant group that it is politically incorrect to criticize: Muslims. Not all of them and I don't even know if anyone has figured out the actual percentage, but in the Islamic schools here in the Washington DC area government agencies have translated their Arabic-language textbooks and discovered that they are full of anti-infidel propaganda and exhortations to make us all like them. They want to be able to walk into a bank dressed like a ninja, and not allow blind people with guide dogs into their taxicabs. Now THAT is un-American. You absolutely do not get this from the Salvadorean, Vietnamese or Ukrainian immigrants.
Will these people really have any respect for our laws or what the founders of the country stood for? Do they really care now?
Yes dude, every single one of them does, with the exception I already noted. Many Muslims want to rewrite our laws. So stop lumping all immigrants in with the bad apples.
Although it is bloody, whites have a long history in this country. Whites founded this country. We designed it and built it. Whites shouldn't feel "lucky" to be here... we were BORN here.
Neither my grandparents nor my wife's were born here. They were immigrants. And they were cursed at by people like you.
This is not supposed to be a non-white bashing thread. It's about the face of this country changing into something that will no longer resemble what it originally was. Let us talk about that.
But what this country originally was is a nation built by immigration. Your premise is illogical. The first occupiers were from northwestern Europe, but the sources of immigrants spread out to the rest of Europe and eventually to the other continents. Nobody called Italians "white" a hundred years ago, but now pizza is America's national food and the rock and roll music their children popularized (which was largely created by the grandchildren of African slaves) is now our national music. People still don't call Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese immigrants "white," but now we regard them as more American than us. Instead of keeping up with the Joneses, we wish our children would study like the Changs, suck up to their elders like the Parks, and work their butts off like the Nguyens.
I think the thread starter is just trolling, the premise is so stupid there is not other explanation.
Yeah, especially after the guy says, "This is not supposed to be a non-white bashing thread" in the middle of his tirade of non-white bashing.
But weren't the Mexicans were already here? Weren't they living in the areas we call California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas.
Indeed. When I lived in Arizona I went to school with kids with Spanish surnames whose families had been there for more than a hundred years, when it was Mexican territory.
Ah, so today's Mexicans are yesterday's Spaniards.
Well to be fair, you have to bear in mind that unlike the Europeans who occupied North America north of the Rio Grande, the Spaniards and Portuguese did not marginalize their Indians. They destroyed their civilizations and brought them syphilis, but they didn't shoot them and put the survivors on reservations. They assimilated them, more or less, and today the average Mexican is Spanish colonial by culture but largely Indian by ancestry. Mexicans who live in communities that practice Indian culture are still looked down on by (perhaps the majority of) those who speak Spanish and dress like Europeans, even if the difference in proportions in their DNA might be very tiny.

Mexico is a perfect example of a culture that has sustained itself without any need for the racial purity that Saven and his Rednecks are so desperate to protect.

If the immigrants are hard working then I am all for them coming. But, I hate when I see some jerk come over, get on welfare, pump out 8 kids and bitch about the culture and the government here.
My wife was a social worker for most of her career and that simply does not happen. The poorest immigrants are the illegals and they're the ones for whom it's virtually impossible to obtain welfare. Sure we educate their children for free but the purpose of that is to Americanize them and it works. It's the Muslims (some of them) who send their kids to schools to reinforce their native culture, not the Latinos.
I think we also need to see that immigrants are assimilated into the culture, where they add their strengths to the collective and leave their baggage in the drive.
They've been doing that since the country was founded. Americans actually complained about Irish immigrants, and now we celebrate St. Patrick's day. As I said, the only immigrants who bring their baggage with them and want to change our country are the Muslims--and not all of them.
I wish the government enforced our imigration laws.
The difference between the standard of living in the USA and Mexico is greater than between any other two adjacent countries on this planet. There's no way to stop them from trying to come here.

Imagine you lived in a place where there were no hospitals or schools, no electricity or running water, no welfare or charity, you can't make enough money to feed your kids and they won't have jobs at all because they can't go to school. You give all of your family's money to a guy who promises to take you to the border of a country where the poor people all have cars, cell phones and homes with plumbing, and their biggest nutritional problem is obesity and along the way many of the people in your party die. You get there and find that the citizens of that country don't even obey their own laws, in fact it seems like their legal system is designed to teach them how to cheat: speeding, zoning, drugs, income tax, business licenses. . . .

Are you really gonna give a damn that you're violating their immigration law?

You could build a new "Iron Curtain" and shoot at these people and they still wouldn't stop trying to get in. They've already been shot at along the way.

Have some compassion. We're rich and famous and we can afford to be gracious.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but everywhere I've lived there would be no busboys, gardeners or anybody else doing really hard work if it weren't for immigrants. American kids just won't do that kind of work. They all think they're going to grow up to be investment bankers, even though they can't make change for a dollar without a POS workstation. Come to think of it, that's probably where the last generation of investment bankers came from, judging by their performance.;)
 
In addition to Fraggle's point that Mexicans tend to be a combination of Caucasian and Indian stock (and under the terms of the initial rant, I have to imagine it's the Indian blood that causes the consternation), it should be pointed out that the census numbers suggest that whites may be a minority...NOT that Latinos will be a majority, let alone that immigrants will be a majority.

I further have to object to assertion that there is "threat" (a somewhat vague threat, might I add) posed to the ill-defined "culture."

The people who will be here in 2050 will have been, for the most part, born here. Will the culture be different? Yes. Is the culture today different than it was in 1960? Yes. Than in 1789? Yes, very much so. American culture itself was very much a conscious break from the western European culture from which it emerged in many ways. People often forget that, in the European paradigm, the non-propertied classes were not considered to be the moral equals of the higher classes. The aristocracy were viewed as a better kind of human being, hence God rewarded them.

Western culture in general has been radically transformed over the past few centuries, largely from within. I'll leave aside the issue of whether there is a trajectory to that change, but I do not think it is fruitful to talk about "the culture" and lament its demise wholesale and I especially do not see how one can assert that changes are a result solely of demographic shifts.

Saven:

What aspects of the culture do you see as being in jeopardy. Religiosity in general? (Probably not since immigrants tend t help that.) Protestantism? The use of English as the primary language in American? The loss of the "newspapers" as our primary source of information? The change in our degree of sexual openness? The sense that all men are created equal? The fact that there are far fewer fans of the ballet and opera (or even live performance arts in general)?

My guess is that you actually do not lament changes to "the culture" but that you likely care about certain changes to the culture and be more or less indifferent to certain other changes, or even encouraging of them. (I know many people in your position of lamenting the loss of "culture" who don't care at all that newspapers are dying, even though they are undoubtedly a mark of the culture shared with our founding fathers.)

Once those particular cultural elements are identified, we then have to ask: What evidence is there that those aspects of the culture are under threat of changing at all? What evidence is there that, if under threat, the threat arises from the demographics nd not the very same general forces of history and western philosophy that have been at work since the late middle ages?

Saven, in arguing in favor of halting cultural changes (and I might say "progress"), you are in fact proposing a radical break from what American and western culture has been for several centuries. Perhaps it is you that does not belong.
 
If the immigrants are hard working then I am all for them coming. But, I hate when I see some jerk come over, get on welfare, pump out 8 kids and bitch about the culture and the government here. Gods that burns me. I don't like it much when citizens do that sort of thing, so I damn well don't like it when an immigrant does it.

I have immigrated and worked in many different countries. So I'm not against immigrants. But, I think we also need to see that immigrants are assimilated into the culture, where they add their strengths to the collective and leave their baggage in the drive.

Since the majority of immigrants are here due to inherent laziness in some countries, is it really a surprise some of them might turn lazy too ?
 
What I would say is that Illegal Immigration is a threat to America, and could be the cause of it's ruination.

If you were smart and not trolling, you would be able to make a serious claim for that.

If. If. If.

Illegal immigration won't ruin the US. But greed and fear might.
 
What I would say is that Illegal Immigration is a threat to America, and could be the cause of it's ruination.

Following only my line of thought above:

How? What do you even mean by "ruination?" Do you expect civil war? Secession? Destruction by the hand of an angry God? By what series of events would illegal immigration lead to the ruin at America? Why does that only apply to illegal immigration and not all immigration?

I could speculate, but I fear I would be caricaturing your concerns. Personally, on purely economic grounds, if it weren't for the threats that could be posed by terrorism, I'd be a big supporter of the free flow of labor across borders (just as I am in favor of the free flow of capital).
 
Following only my line of thought above:

How? What do you even mean by "ruination?" Do you expect civil war? Secession? Destruction by the hand of an angry God? By what series of events would illegal immigration lead to the ruin at America? Why does that only apply to illegal immigration and not all immigration?

I could speculate, but I fear I would be caricaturing your concerns. Personally, on purely economic grounds, if it weren't for the threats that could be posed by terrorism, I'd be a big supporter of the free flow of labor across borders (just as I am in favor of the free flow of capital).

Just look at the costs alone for crime and health care from illegals that is passed onto the budgets of the State and Federal Government.
 
Just look at the costs alone for crime and health care from illegals that is passed onto the budgets of the State and Federal Government.


Costs go up for crime and health care whenever the population increases, whether by legal immigration, illegal immigration or natural child birth by existing citizens. Is the claim that the illegal immigrant population increase those costs more than they offset it through the generation of economic activity? Is there any data either comparing the costs of illegals entering an area as compared to increases in other populations or comparing the total economic impact of illegals on an economy (including state and federal budgets and crime and healthcare costs)?

I recall when Salt Lake City hosted the olympics, their crime and health care costs skyrocketed. Yet the people of SLC invited those miscreants in, and in the end, the city expected to make money on them, directly or indirectly.
 
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Immigration, in and of itself, probably won't ruin a country. Mass immigration from groups of people who are either unwilling or unable to assimilate will most likely lead to problems, though.
 
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