Is Free Speech a Good Thing

Should There Be Limitations On Speech?

  • No, Free Speech is a fundamental human right.

    Votes: 11 64.7%
  • Only if it is considered "Hate Speech."

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • The public and its representatives should control public speech through legislation

    Votes: 3 17.6%

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Bowser

Namaste
Valued Senior Member
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I am totally committed to this idea, even when faced with ideas that are contrary to my own views. Nonetheless, there's been a recent trend in Western society that endeavors to limit certain speech, and this causes me concern. I'm wondering how others might feel about unlimited expression and the efforts to curb specific ideas.
 
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I am totally committed to this idea, even when faced with ideas that are contrary to my own views. Nonetheless, there's been a recent trend in Western society that endeavors to limit certain speech, and this causes me concern. I'm wondering how others might feel about unlimited expression and the efforts to curb specific ideas.
Until recently, free speech in the USA was only limited when it was likely to result in the commission of a crime, or in some other way threaten public order.

The obvious example is fraud: telling someone a lie in order to manipulate them into doing something that will benefit you but cause them harm or financial loss. "This car was only driven to church on Sundays by an old lady who never went more than 30mph" is the classic example. And even this is limited; we're expected to be wise enough to know that advertisements exaggerate.

In my view, "fraud" also neatly covers the common example of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. The person who yells is lying in order to gain a benefit, which is the entertainment value of watching people scrambling to get to the exits, and this causes harm or financial loss to the people who have lost their opportunity to see the movie and wasted their valuable time; they might also be physically injured in the chaos.

Other examples of generally-accepted limits on free speech include:
  • Advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government by force. This may seem petty, and indeed you'd have to do a little more than write, "Let's storm Washington with assault rifles and overthrow the government," in a post on SciForums before anybody would bother prosecuting you. But in times of turmoil, or in the event of an attack on U.S. soil like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, when a reasonable person might suspect that a home-grown revolt might be brewing that would aid our enemies, to advocate the overthrow of the government is to advocate a breakdown of civil society and to invite martial law.
  • Fomenting a riot. Again, one guy with a bullhorn is probably not going to be prosecuted--although his bullhorn might be confiscated. But a group of people with torches yelling about injustice and recommending burning down buildings need to be stopped. (I was in L.A. during the Watts riots and also during the Rodney King riots. In both cases the rioters did far more harm to the people whom they claimed they wanted to help, than to the rest of us. I always tuned to the Spanish-language stations for better coverage of news in progress. I still cry when I remember the barefoot little boy standing on the sidewalk watching his apartment building burn down, saying to the camera, Yo tenía solo un par de zapatos, y entonces están quemados. "I only had one pair of shoes, and now they're burned up.")
  • "Fighting words." If you and three buddies walk into a bar in East Los Angeles half an hour before closing time, when it's reasonable to assume that there are quite a few people inside who are A) of Mexican ancestry and B) drunk, and yell, "You damn Mexicans should go home," the odds are about 99% that a fight will immediately break out. I haven't been back to L.A. since the last century, but here in Maryland virtually every bar has a bouncer or two to handle such situations; still, even two big tough guys couldn't stop the brawl that remark would trigger.
  • Conspiracy to commit a crime. This is a recent addition. Planning a crime is, after all, part of the crime itself. So getting together with your buddies to plan the crime is also part of the crime. It's often easier to follow mobsters to their hideouts and plant listening devices inside, than it is to find and follow the lackeys they hire to commit the actual crime, while they themselves are at the Policemen's Ball getting their photo taken with the Mayor.
Recently "hate speech" has been added to that list. Frankly I disapprove of that, even though I understand why it was added: penance. Americans with skin like mine have gotten away literally with murdering people with different colored skin, different religions, different sexual preferences (and probably different ways of sharpening their pencils) for generations. This is just payback. So I don't complain. Having to watch my language is hardly going to compensate anyone for the friends, siblings, parents, grandparents and great-grandparents who were killed by bigots. I figure I'm getting away easy. Hell, my grandfather's parents were Jewish and I know that the "good Christian people" of Germany killed a lot of cousins of mine whose names I never knew.
 
? There are no laws against "hate speech" in the USA that I know of.
I stand corrected. Laws have been passed but declared unconstitutional for violating the First Amendment.

Hate speech sometimes qualifies as "fighting words," but in most cases the courts reject even this argument. If a white man calls a black man the N-word in a bar, he'd probably be prosecuted because that is clearly provocation. But to say it on a talk show or display it on a bumper sticker or just scream it in a subway station fails to satisfy the definition because it is not directed at any particular person who might be goaded into fighting.

Shortly after 9/11, a couple of young men of Middle Eastern appearance were escorted off of an airliner after passengers complained that they were wearing t-shirts with slogans in Arabic--or at least the Arabic abjad, it could have been Farsi or Urdu or Azerbaijani. They were accused of trying to start a fight.

IIRC, it turned out that the slogans were calls for peace and tolerance among speakers of that language.
 
I think that once we start limiting speech, we open the door for further intrusions...


It's a slippery slope.

All societies have always limited speech, one way or another. The US has that nice clause in its constitution, and yet has made exceptions, like the yelling of "Fire" or the incitement of crowds to violence. There are always limits to what societies accept in public speech. Private speech is quite a different matter: personal conversations between citizens are uncensored --- unless a threat happens to be overheard; so, you see, even there, we have a line between guaranteed freedom and unlawful utterance. There has never been, and there is not likely ever to be, totally unfettered, unconstrained communication in a society. Communication is simply too volatile, too closely associated with action.

All slopes are slippery. The potential threats to you liberty inherent in tighter public speech laws have already been carried out and exceeded in 'security' measures (for your protection!) that didn't even go through a pretense of legislation.
 
Personally I prefer a legislative rather than a constitutional approach to rights because they need to be responsive. Free speech for instance is a great principle but shouldn't be allowed to let cigaret companies advertise against the public good, same with alcohol to children
 
The first amendment is to protect a 'minority opinion' (religion ect...) not 'free speech' per say.
 
:D if someone would say I hate cats and there is laws against hate speech. I would hate to see what could happen. Almost anything can be construed to be hate speech.
 
Free speech - based on reasons Fraggle cites above - is subject to the will of the mob.
 
The first amendment is to protect a 'minority opinion' (religion ect...) not 'free speech' per say.
The First Amendment reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The semicolons identify these clearly as three independent clauses, not intended to build upon or refer back to each other.
 
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
Soren Kierkegaard


All Americans value the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press, and I believe this is essential for our continued way of life. But with this freedom comes responsibility. That responsibility has been abdicated here by some in the media and some in the government.
Steven Hatfill


It is easy to believe in freedom of speech for those with whom we agree.
Leo McKern


“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell


“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
― Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire


“It was a shocking thing to say and I knew it was a shocking thing to say. But no one has the right to live without being shocked. No one has the right to spend their life without being offended. Nobody has to read this book. Nobody has to pick it up. Nobody has to open it. And if you open it and read it, you don't have to like it. And if you read it and you dislike it, you don't have to remain silent about it. You can write to me, you can complain about it, you can write to the publisher, you can write to the papers, you can write your own book. You can do all those things, but there your rights stop. No one has the right to stop me writing this book. No one has the right to stop it being published, or sold, or bought, or read.”
― Philip Pullman
 
Free speech - based on reasons Fraggle cites above - is subject to the will of the mob.

In that sense the change or progression of social norms in terms of societal conceptions of what is deemed “normal” and “taboo” to say are really just the interpretation of a distinctive era , time or geographic region. What is deemed appropriate to say in public changes with the “public” through time.
We all know this as a good example in the 50 to early 60’s it was socially normal or even expected for a white man to call a black man an N-word. I can’t even say it on these forums in a text, that is how radically different society is ,fast-forward 50 years later, a white man who even mentions the N- word by mistake or while joking could be charged with provocation or sentenced to sensitivity training or in a worse case is beaten or even killed.
 
True free speech, would be speech without thought. How many times do we want to say something and decide not to or to word it differently because it wouldn't be in our best interests to say what we really want to, or we are worried about offending people. True free speech would mean no holding back or lying and just blurting out whatever comes into our heads. We all exercise discipline with our speech and usually think about what we to say and how best to say it. If there is anyone out there that thinks they don't exercise discipline with their speech I suggest if they ever find themselves in court they should try telling the judge what they 'really' think.
 
The Pullman quote posted above by buddha12 has always seemed to be a long-form riff on Orwell's more succinct quote (also quoted above), but perhaps more important for its detail. It sums up nicely my feelings on the matter.
 
If free speech has its limitation then it's like limiting our sole rights as a registered citizen in our country. We have the right to speak or criticize whatever we see is wrong. Resistance to injustice, or oppression would'nt be possible if this free speech is limited.But at some point,I agree with fraggle,
Until recently, free speech in the USA was only limited when it was likely to result in the commission of a crime, or in some other way threaten public order.
 
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” ― Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire
"I have a friend who comes from some place in central Asia. He says that the earth is perched on the back of a giant elephant, and the elephant is standing on top of an even larger turtle. Ya know, I don't think I would be willing to die to protect his right to say that." ― from a movie I saw many years ago
 
That friend comes from Discworld and speaks the truth. He wouldn't expect his friends to die for his freedom to say so.
 
Back
Top