Is Abiogenesis Scientific?

P

Prince_James

Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
Registered Senior Member
Whereas evolution is undeniably scientific fact, it seems that abiogenesis rests on far shakier grounds. That is to say, whereas we have some reason to suspect that the hypothesis is true (the amino acid experiment) we have little else to demonstrate it's truth. No lifeform has ever been observed to develop out of experiment "primordial soups", no complex molecules aside from the aforementioned amino acids (and not even all of them) have been shown to develop in laboratory conditions mimicing early Earth, there is no fossil or other data to show what the earliest lifeforms looked like, et cetera, et cetera...

In essence, whereas it would explain many things, it also seems to have essentially no solid proof, and only the most shakiest of circumstantial evidence.

Or perhaps I am not taking into consideration some new evidence?
 
Prince_James said:
Whereas evolution is undeniably scientific fact, it seems that abiogenesis rests on far shakier grounds. That is to say, whereas we have some reason to suspect that the hypothesis is true (the amino acid experiment) we have little else to demonstrate it's truth. No lifeform has ever been observed to develop out of experiment "primordial soups", no complex molecules aside from the aforementioned amino acids (and not even all of them) have been shown to develop in laboratory conditions mimicing early Earth, there is no fossil or other data to show what the earliest lifeforms looked like, et cetera, et cetera...

In essence, whereas it would explain many things, it also seems to have essentially no solid proof, and only the most shakiest of circumstantial evidence.

Or perhaps I am not taking into consideration some new evidence?
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are you comparing...the time and space humans have and time and space planet Earth had?

Earth is a greater laboratory that exists, existed, and will exist for a long time. And that is why humans have not been able to start abiogenesis.
 
As we've observed with galaxies and stars in their various stages, so too should we be able to observe various stages of life... that is, once we're able to travel to a variety of other planetary systems.
 
(Q) said:
As we've observed with galaxies and stars in their various stages, so too should we be able to observe various stages of life... that is, once we're able to travel to a variety of other planetary systems.
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that is if we are not too late. Perhaps life exists only in a thin band portion of time-space expansion after the big bang occured.
 
Prince_James said:
Whereas evolution is undeniably scientific fact, it seems that abiogenesis rests on far shakier grounds. That is to say, whereas we have some reason to suspect that the hypothesis is true (the amino acid experiment) we have little else to demonstrate it's truth. No lifeform has ever been observed to develop out of experiment "primordial soups", no complex molecules aside from the aforementioned amino acids (and not even all of them) have been shown to develop in laboratory conditions mimicing early Earth, there is no fossil or other data to show what the earliest lifeforms looked like, et cetera, et cetera...

In essence, whereas it would explain many things, it also seems to have essentially no solid proof, and only the most shakiest of circumstantial evidence.

Or perhaps I am not taking into consideration some new evidence?
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The theory, as commonly accepted, in textbooks, etc, has life beginning in three steps:
1 Non-biological molecules synthesize organic molecules. They've been making amino acids in such ways for decades now.
2 Assembling the molecules into polymers. This has also been observed, both in the lab and in nature.
3 Assembling the polymers into self replicating organisms. This has yet to be observed.

Two thirds doesn't seem that bad, does it?
 
Roman:

1 Non-biological molecules synthesize organic molecules. They've been making amino acids in such ways for decades now.
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Not all, nor apparently the ones which appear in our bodies.

2 Assembling the molecules into polymers. This has also been observed, both in the lab and in nature.
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Can you give me some sources on this? And what sort of polymers?

3 Assembling the polymers into self replicating organisms. This has yet to be observed.
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A pretty big problem at the moment, no?

Q:

As we've observed with galaxies and stars in their various stages, so too should we be able to observe various stages of life... that is, once we're able to travel to a variety of other planetary systems.
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Depending on how these lifeforms are constituted, it may be invalid for us to claim the same processes worked for us.
 
Regarding #2, it seems I was misled by my professor. RNA, when given a mineral substrate (like clay), will attach itself to it and stay protected from RNA damaging molecules. It can also replicate and undergo reverse transcription as efficiently as free floating RNA. This was experimentally verified by Franchi and Gallori.

However, the development of the enzyme that reverse transcribed the RNA, and the synthesis of the RNA itself, weren't cause by any abiogenesis.

Here's a link to a blog that gave me the key words to search around wikipedia with: http://evolgen.blogspot.com/2005/03/on-origin-of-life_09.html
I also looked through my textbook ( Freeman, Biological Science, Second Edition), and found basically the same thing, though more watered down. Basically an early RNA world that arouse through amino acids and polymers randomly bumping into eachother Conjecture supported in a few places by experiments.
 
Roman:

So basically, a bit more of circumstantial evidence, but no solid foundations for basing evolutionary theory on abiogenesis yet, yes?
 
As Sherlock Holmes famously said: "Once you eliminate the impossible, then whatever remains, however unlikely, is the truth."

In this case, the "circumstantial evidence" makes abiogenesis possible and there are no alternative explanations consistent with both the tangible and circumstantial evidence.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
As Sherlock Holmes famously said: "Once you eliminate the impossible, then whatever remains, however unlikely, is the truth."

In this case, the "circumstantial evidence" makes abiogenesis possible and there are no alternative explanations consistent with both the tangible and circumstantial evidence.
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thank you sir. I totally agree with you.
 
Prince_James said:
Roman:

So basically, a bit more of circumstantial evidence, but no solid foundations for basing evolutionary theory on abiogenesis yet, yes?
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DNA and RNA. They are the blueprint for life. They are made of organic chemicals of a nature common in the early Earth, which was thought to contain an ocean. Since there was no life to consume the organic molecules, they must have attained higher and higher concentrations. Such organic molecules are found even in space. Since it is also known that life arose in the ocean, one may assume that this was the womb that cultivated the first life.

This theory is quite compelling, but the proof is still elusive; it's one of the most interesting questions in biology.
 
spidergoat said:
DNA and RNA. They are the blueprint for life. They are made of organic chemicals of a nature common in the early Earth, which was thought to contain an ocean.
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perhaps...ocean pressure helped facilitate the creation of life. hmmmm!!!:eek: !!!that might explain the amount of different species down there!!! im a genious.
 
Yes, the pressures created conditions for chemical reactions that could happen nowhere else, and filled the water with a rich stew of chemistry.
 
spidergoat said:
DNA and RNA. They are the blueprint for life. They are made of organic chemicals of a nature common in the early Earth, which was thought to contain an ocean. Since there was no life to consume the organic molecules, they must have attained higher and higher concentrations. Such organic molecules are found even in space. Since it is also known that life arose in the ocean, one may assume that this was the womb that cultivated the first life.

This theory is quite compelling, but the proof is still elusive; it's one of the most interesting questions in biology.
Click to expand...

There was a meteorite discovered in Australia that had 18 different amino acids in it.
 
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