Iraq Veterans vulnerable to commit suicide

[S.A.M.]

But it is still Fatah who is recognized and supported, and Hammas who is cut off, and has no recognition.

Yeah, that's called free and fair elections in your world, I presume.

 

[S.A.M.]

Wow. That was deep. You could make a slogan out of it:

"Dhimmitude - hey, at least we won't kill ya!"*

* Unless you talk back, attempt to get equal rights and treatment or have something we need. Void where exemptions to Protected People status apply. May cause societal malaise.

Anyway, all that went on in the islamic world too: "pogroms, the Holocaust, colonial genocide, installed dictators, death squads and wars of liberation for survival value". Don't feel bad; it's every bit as bad as the West, and worse.

heh, yeah, now it is, since Israel has inherited Western secularism and imported it into the ME.

Must warm your heart to see the natives decimated. Bring back memories of the good ole days when your ancestors went around the world liberating the natives. I'm sure the tasmanians, Autralians and Americans appreciate the liberation.

 

[GeoffP]

Yeah, that's called free and fair elections in your world, I presume.

...so is it then also not fair that ME nations also refuse to recognize Israel?

heh, yeah, now it is, since Israel has inherited Western secularism and imported it into the ME.

Israel was responsible for the cultural genocide of non-muslim Eastern cultures and the Armenian genocide? Man, they are so sneaky. Wait till I tell the other Lizardoids.

Must warm your heart to see the natives decimated. Bring back memories of the good ole days when your ancestors went around the world liberating the natives.

Ah, no. My wife is Native American. You seem to have me confused with someone else. Why did Mohammed need so much bloodshed if he was sent by God? Couldn't God have just converted all those people with a wave of his heavenly hand or something? And speaking of decimating the natives, wasn't it native Sephardic Jews that were attacked by Palestinian rioters on Nebi Musa in 1921?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Israel is a created state, not a real one. It was created for convenience due to the Holocaust. I think it has fulfilled its function ie appeased all those who did not save the Jews at the time.

By the same U.N. process as the State of Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria were formed, they were all created states

 

[quadraphonics]

I get the feeling that you know very little about the Kashmir issue.

Well, in all fairness, ignorance never seems to prevent you from posting, so...

As I already said, I support a referendum there,

Yeah, right, India's all for a referendum, provided all of the "extremists" are removed first, of course. Just like Israel is willing to get rid of the checkpoints, wall and settlements as soon as all terrorism stops.

and Kashmir was a very peaceful state before Pakistani extremists got to it.

Or rather, before India got the British to pressure them into acceding just prior to partition. Kind of like this other occupation that resulted from a land-grab on the tails of a declining British Empire, where extremists keep messing things up.

Even the terrorism in India today is supported by groups like Lashker-e-Toiba which have their bases in Pakistan.

Yes, and how can you negotiate with terrorists?

The massacre of local Kashmiri Hindus was not carried out by India.

And the pogroms against Middle Eastern Jews were not carried out be Israel.

And yeah the Palestinians have elections. So is Hamas recognised by anyone? Kashmiri government is.

Hamas is recognized by lots of countries. So it ceases to be an occupation not when you remove your troops, but when others recognize the interim authority? By your terms, then, the Israeli occupation of Palestine ceased back when the PA began having free and fair elections. I wonder why those terrorists keep fighting? Presumably it has something to do with the depredations of a power-mad American bent on world destruction.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well, in all fairness, ignorance never seems to prevent you from posting, so...



Yeah, right, India's all for a referendum, provided all of the "extremists" are removed first, of course. Just like Israel is willing to get rid of the checkpoints, wall and settlements as soon as all terrorism stops.



Or rather, before India got the British to pressure them into acceding just prior to partition. Kind of like this other occupation that resulted from a land-grab on the tails of a declining British Empire, where extremists keep messing things up.

I don't know what the Indian position is on the referendum, it keeps changing, I gave mine. I'm certainly not defending the current events in Kashmir or the army's atrocities, so what you are saying is all agreeable to me.

Yes, and how can you negotiate with terrorists?

And the pogroms against Middle Eastern Jews were not carried out be Israel.

.

Hmm I had no idea Israel had carried out pogroms against Middle Eastern Jews though I hear they have been shitty with black Jews and I know some Indian Jews returned because of discrimination.

Hamas is recognized by lots of countries. So it ceases to be an occupation not when you remove your troops, but when others recognize the interim authority? By your terms, then, the Israeli occupation of Palestine ceased back when the PA began having free and fair elections. I wonder why those terrorists keep fighting? Presumably it has something to do with the depredations of a power-mad American bent on world destruction

No it ceases to be an occupation when the people of the country recognise the occupation as a foreign power and tell them to move out. And they move out.

My opinion? Since the king of Kashmir (a representative of the people as you say) signed his lot in with India, we need a referendum in Kashmir. And since the Hindus were massacred or driven out from the Kashmir portion of Jammu and Kashmir, the referendum should include not only the people resident in Kashmir but also the refugees driven out by extremists. Do you agree?

 

[spidergoat]

Moved.

 

[draqon]

I wonder how low is the percentage of wifes in USA who actually wait for their husbands to return from Iraq? must be 20% or lower...

 

[Mr. G]

Moved.

Suicide by cop!

 

[spidergoat]

I LOLed.

 

[Plazma Inferno!]

Administrator's Note

Verbal Warning for S.A.M. for flaming (comment deleted)

 

[quadraphonics]

Hmm I had no idea Israel had carried out pogroms against Middle Eastern Jews

Of course they have not. The point was that this is so obvious as to not need pointing out, just like the fact that it's not the Indian Army massacring the Hindus.

No it ceases to be an occupation when the people of the country recognise the occupation as a foreign power and tell them to move out. And they move out.

So Kashmir IS still an occupation, then?

Since the king of Kashmir (a representative of the people as you say) signed his lot in with India,

The king of Kashmir was, like all kings, a representative only of himself, not a legitimate representative of his subjects. That India's pre-partition sabre-rattling forced the British to prevail upon him to sign away his people's lands does not impress me.

we need a referendum in Kashmir. And since the Hindus were massacred or driven out from the Kashmir portion of Jammu and Kashmir, the referendum should include not only the people resident in Kashmir but also the refugees driven out by extremists. Do you agree?

How convenient. The only fair way to settle it is a referendum, and the only fair way to have a referendum is, for all practical purposes, impossible. Your suggestion (and India's position w.r.t. the referendum more generally) is a way of sounding reasonable while refusing any course of action besides military conflict.

 

[S.A.M.]

What should have been India's response to the massacre of the kashmiri Hindus? How do you think they should have handled the extremism?

 

[GeoffP]

With peace talks and concessions, of course. And lots of easily broken truces. That's the only way to deal with extremists.

 

[quadraphonics]

What should have been India's response to the massacre of the kashmiri Hindus? How do you think they should have handled the extremism?

Well, ceasing their brutal land-grab policy of building apartheid walls, summary execution, reprisal rampages against civilians, looting, arson, rape, disappearances, gunning down of peaceful protestors, imprisonment without trial and torture. You know, all those things that get the "extremists" so riled up in the first place.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well, ceasing their brutal land-grab policy of building apartheid walls, summary execution, reprisal rampages against civilians, looting, arson, rape, disappearances, gunning down of peaceful protestors, imprisonment without trial and torture. You know, all those things that get the "extremists" so riled up in the first place.

You mean these extremists?

Though there had been instances of sporadic conflict in many regions for many years, intensified attacks occurred in the late 1980s, when Mujahideen fighters from Afghanistan slowly infiltrated the region, allegedly with Pakistan's help, following the end of the Soviet-Afghan War in 1989.[1] Since then, violence has increased significantly in strength. Many separatists have carried out attacks on Indian civilians and Indian army installations in response to what they see as Indian army occupation.[2]

India claims most of the separatist terrorist groups are based in Pakistan and Pakistan-administered Kashmir (also known as Azad Kashmir). Some like the All Parties Hurriyat Conference and the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, demand an independent Kashmir. Other terrorist groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed favour a Pakistani-Kashmir. These terror groups have contacts with Taliban and Bin Laden. Both the organisations no longer operate under these names after they were banned by the Indian and Pakistani government, and by other countries including the USA and UK. Of the larger militant groups, the Hizbul Mujahideen, a militant organisation based in Indian administered Kashmir, unlike other groups, has only kept its name.[3] Despite casualties, the militants are still believed to number thousands rather than hundreds. Several new separatist organizations have also emerged. According to U.S. Intelligence, Al-Qaeda also has a main base in Pakistani Kashmir and is helping to foment terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir.[4] [5]

 

[GeoffP]

Probably should talk to them and work out some equitable settlement.

 

[S.A.M.]

Since the extremists come in over the border, it is hard to keep track of them. Such incidents have become daily and commonplace

The Hindu American Foundation (HAF) strongly condemned the massacre of twenty-two Hindus in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir by suspected Islamist terrorists yesterday. According to the latest reports, militants belonging to the Pakistan-sponsored Lashkar-e-Toiba trekked into remote hamlets in the state’s Doda district and specifically rounded up Hindu residents into the home of a village leader. The Hindus, including a six-year-old girl, were then massacred with machine guns.

The latest killings came on the heels of the abduction of 13 other Hindus earlier the same day and the gunning down of four Hindu ranch-hands from the Udhampur district the previous day. The two-day orgy was the worst in Kashmir in nearly three years though the upcoming 2005 Hindu Human Rights report documents a steady drumbeat of attacks on Hindus throughout the year.

“The latest murder spree tragically confirms two realities: the bankruptcy of the Pakistani government’s so-called commitment to a peace process, and the utter failure of the Government of India to safeguard the lives of innocent Hindus and Muslims within its territory,” said Aseem Shukla, M.D., member of the HAF Board of Directors.

Over the last year, Hindus in India witnessed attacks on their most sacred temple complexes in Ayodhya and Varanasi that left dozens dead and were also attributed to the Lashkar-e-Toiba. And just as the temple killings occurred during a period of ongoing dialogue between Pakistan and India, the latest attacks in Kashmir came on the eve of talks that were to be held by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh with leaders of ostensibly more moderate Kashmiri separatist groups.

http://www.hafsite.org/media_press_release_kashmir_massacre.htm

 

[GeoffP]

Now that sounds like somewhere I've heard of before. Lemme think...almost got it. Anyway, talking is better than fighting.

 

[S.A.M.]

Any destabilisation in Pakistan and Afghanistan leads to deaths in India. Supporting extremism for political games leads to death of innocents. It makes no matter if the innocents are Indians, Pakistanis, Afghanistanis or Palestinians. They deserve protection. The Indian Army may not be doing such a great job, but I have friends who have lost their only brothers at the border, fighting in the IAS; its a thankless job and they are not trying to steal land or throw out the inhabitants.

Iraq has increased the attacks, the extremism, more terrorist attacks in India since the war. Fools pour their money into it and claim to support their troops in pointles wars, killing innocent people in our country from the backlash that they are too far away to experience.