Iraq Veterans vulnerable to commit suicide

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SpAM, the Philippines invited us to leave in 1992, and we did Subic, and Clark were abandoned, we didn't stay were we weren't wanted, and with the loss of the income of the bases the Philippines economy tanked, a real case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
SpAM, the Philippines invited us to leave in 1992, and we did Subic, and Clark were abandoned, we didn't stay were we weren't wanted, and with the loss of the income of the bases the Philippines economy tanked, a real case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So when you leave Iraq and there is a civil war, it will be the Iraqis fault.

I'm sure the Filipinos were unhappy to lose the business

http://www.imdiversity.com/Villages/Asian/history_heritage/pns_mylai_anniversary_0305.asp
 
The Korean military presence for instance, is due to an agreement that will expire only some years hence. The Koreans do not like the military presence at all, the government does.

And yet, the Korean people keep employing their democratic franchise to elect governments that want to keep the US military around. Perhaps the feelings of the Korean people are not as unequivocal as you suggest.

Japan's military was disarmed after the war, so I presume they have no choice but to keep the base, regardless of what the people want. Are they allowed to develop their military yet?

They were allowed to develop a self-defense force from the beginning, and are currently rewriting their constitution to allow for a full-featured military. And not liking the alternative is not the same as not having a choice. And, again, if the Japanese are really so opposed to the bases, why do they keep electing governments that choose to keep them?

As for France, well, its not Japan is it? or some Third World country with no seat on the Security Council? I doubt the US could have refused.

Certainly we could have refused. France hasn't been in a position to dictate terms to the United States for some time now. It's just that the costs of refusing would be too high. Likewise, the costs of refusing to leave any country that asked would be too high, no matter how geopolitically insignificant the country might be. The reason is simple: refusing to leave at the request of a host country would result in most, if not all, host countries wanting us to leave, and we'd have a very difficult time finding new host countries. The entire arrangement is based on our good word, and violating that anywhere, even in a minor country, would undermine the entire endeavor.

Interesting though, I shall ask my Korean friend about their anti-base activity.

There are many anti-base operations though.

I never said that the bases are unanimously popular. But the anti-base activists don't represent the entire nations. The governments, on the other hand, do.

Hmm looks like you did it for me.

Not really. Owing to the details of the basing agreement, Cuba has never asked us to leave. But that situation is a historical anomaly; no similar basing arrangements have ever been so much as proposed. The mention of Cuba was intended to be a challenge to find a more relevant example, but apparently that suggestion was too subtle for you. Not that I'm unhappy to accept your concession, but still...

All the ones in the ME of course. e.g. Israel.

So, wait, you're saying Israel is a US-installed dictatorship defended by NATO, and that this underlies the petrodollar? Do you have the slightest inkling how far out into space you are right now?

And of course peace in the US and Europe is what all of us lesser mortals should be willing to die for. Asia and Americas? Arabs?

Funny, I thought I was explicit about including Asia and the Americas in the list of peaceful places we were supposed to be proud of. But, hey, why bother phrasing a reply that actually relates to my post when you can regurgitate shallow rhetoric instead?
 
I wonder how you would like being on the receiving end of a program for world peace decided for you. Oops thats called terrorism.

Are you calling Sept. 11 a plan for world peace? Anyhow, it's a moot point, as no other great power has ever pursued a plan for world peace, nor are any likely to in the future.

Also, for someone who's never been on said receiving end herself, you sure do stake a lot of your credibility on it. It's too bad you were born in, say, Iraq, or there might actually be something substantial behind your indignant pose.
 
I provided the link for the Americas and Asias and why they are not the havens of peace you declare them to be. India for example, has a bombing nearly every day due to increased terrorism, which is imported from our destabilised neighbors with US aided dictators. Perhaps you think that is a peaceful situation but its not.

As for the military bases, you have yourself given the example of what happens when a country does not want a base. I would wonder how many requests have gone out from the Koreans and Japanese, but have been ignored. The fact that you have democratic governments who tolerate the bases inspite of the people (rather than installed dictators) just shows how limited their choices are.
 
Are you calling Sept. 11 a plan for world peace? Anyhow, it's a moot point, as no other great power has ever pursued a plan for world peace, nor are any likely to in the future.

Also, for someone who's never been on said receiving end herself, you sure do stake a lot of your credibility on it. It's too bad you were born in, say, Iraq, or there might actually be something substantial behind your indignant pose.

Yeah I wish you were born in Iraq too, maybe then what you say about world peace and US foreign policy would be more believable.

I'm curious, have you ever served in a war?
 
I provided the link for the Americas and Asias and why they are not the havens of peace you declare them to be. India for example, has a bombing nearly every day due to increased terrorism, which is imported from our destabilised neighbors with US aided dictators. Perhaps you think that is a peaceful situation but its not.

Peace is a relative thing. I never said there weren't any problems, but things could be much worse (and, moreover, mostly were during the past 100 years). India's not at war, nor are China, Japan, etc.

And it's pretty obtuse to blame America's support of the Pakistani military for terrorism in India. The entire reason we aid Pakistan is to buy their assistance in clamping down on terrorism. And I seem to recall India illegally occupying a bunch of disputed territory full of Muslims, to boot...

As for the military bases, you have yourself given the example of what happens when a country does not want a base.

Not really. Cuba is an example of what happens when a government wants a base, signs up for one under nonstandard terms, and then is replaced through a military coup with a Soviet-backed dictatorship.

I would wonder how many requests have gone out from the Koreans and Japanese, but have been ignored.

There have been no formal requests from the governments of Japan or Korea, the lawful, democratic representatives of the people in question.

The fact that you have democratic governments who tolerate the bases inspite of the people (rather than installed dictators) just shows how limited their choices are.

To suggest that a democratic government pursues any long-term policy in spite of its people is a contradiction. But, yes, their choices are limited by the fact that they face massive hostile entities that they cannot hope to ward off on their own. Hosting American bases buys them the freedom to pursue their own business and government as they see fit, without their political lives being overwhelmed by conflict. It's a bummer that they're in those situations, but how they deal with them is a choice they make on their own.
 
I think their choices are limited more by trade agreements and a desire to not go against the US. I cannot imagine any country that wants a foreign military on its soil.

And Kashmir is not all Muslims, or wasn't. The Pakistanis don't help either, though I am in favor of a referendum for them, which they were promised, then denied. Indeed I think the partition of India was a mistake and should never have happened.
 
I think their choices are limited more by trade agreements and a desire to not go against the US.

Well, we don't have trade agreements with many (most?) of the countries where we have bases, so that seems improbable.

I cannot imagine any country that wants a foreign military on its soil.

Indeed, but can you imagine a country that would rather host the soldiers of an ally on their soil than risk being overrun by the soldiers of a hostile power? History offers many examples.

And Kashmir is not all Muslims, or wasn't.

Nevertheless, it is a country that you occupied against the wishes of its people, whatever their religious affiliations may be.
 
Well, we don't have trade agreements with many (most?) of the countries where we have bases, so that seems improbable.

Do they have nuclear weapons pointed at them?

Indeed, but can you imagine a country that would rather host the soldiers of an ally on their soil than risk being overrun by the soldiers of a hostile power? History offers many examples.

Permanently? Why?

Nevertheless, it is a country that you occupied against the wishes of its people, whatever their religious affiliations may be.

Its not an occupation, they have their own government, elected. Some people want the referendum, some of whom are militant and Pakistan likes to inflame the conflict by presenting it as a Muslim problem.
 
Do they have nuclear weapons pointed at them?

Most do not, although we can probably assume that both South Korea and Japan are targetted by North Korea and/or China. Why do you bring this up?

Permanently? Why?

Who said anything about permanent bases? What are you talking about?

Its not an occupation, they have their own government, elected.

So do the Palestinians.

Some people want the referendum, some of whom are militant and Pakistan likes to inflame the conflict by presenting it as a Muslim problem.

Right, it's all those evil Pakistanis' fault. If it weren't for them, you could have just swallowed up Kashmir during the partition like you planned.
 
I think their choices are limited more by trade agreements and a desire to not go against the US. I cannot imagine any country that wants a foreign military on its soil.

WWII, there were a lot of countries that wanted American Troops on their soil, even India.
 
Most do not, although we can probably assume that both South Korea and Japan are targetted by North Korea and/or China. Why do you bring this up?



Who said anything about permanent bases? What are you talking about?



So do the Palestinians.



Right, it's all those evil Pakistanis' fault. If it weren't for them, you could have just swallowed up Kashmir during the partition like you planned.

I get the feeling that you know very little about the Kashmir issue. As I already said, I support a referendum there, and Kashmir was a very peaceful state before Pakistani extremists got to it. Even the terrorism in India today is supported by groups like Lashker-e-Toiba which have their bases in Pakistan. The massacre of local Kashmiri Hindus was not carried out by India.

And yeah the Palestinians have elections. So is Hamas recognised by anyone? Kashmiri government is.
 
No, but Fattah who won the election is.

I believe Hamas won the election and another election was organised by Israel and US which Fatah won. Strangely enough, its only from Israel and the US that we hear of Fatah's popularity.
 
Or dhimmitude. ;)

Beats pogroms, the Holocaust, colonial genocide, installed dictators, death squads and wars of liberation for survival value.

What do you think of the position of American natives and Australian aborigines in their own lands?
 
Wow. That was deep. You could make a slogan out of it:

"Dhimmitude - hey, at least we won't kill ya!"*

* Unless you talk back, attempt to get equal rights and treatment or have something we need. Void where exemptions to Protected People status apply. May cause societal malaise.

Anyway, all that went on in the islamic world too: "pogroms, the Holocaust, colonial genocide, installed dictators, death squads and wars of liberation for survival value". Don't feel bad; it's every bit as bad as the West, and worse.
 
I believe Hamas won the election and another election was organised by Israel and US which Fatah won. Strangely enough, its only from Israel and the US that we hear of Fatah's popularity.

But it is still Fatah who is recognized and supported, and Hammas who is cut off, and has no recognition.
 
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