Into Thy Closet?

[Carcano]

This is a thread about whether the lifestyle taught by Jesus even qualifies as religion.

All religion requires some form of group action and effort. Christian groups pray together, sing together, study together, and give to charity together.

Without this 'communal action' I dont see how any religion could possibly survive and endure.

And yet this is precisely what Jesus denied.

When moved to prayer Jesus commands his followers to "enter into thy closet" (Matthew 6:6) and proceed in private.

And when giving alms, he instructs the crowds:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the temples and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What do you suppose would happen to charity if no publicity were to be gained? What would become of religion if all prayer was performed in secret?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

This is a thread about whether the lifestyle taught by Jesus even qualifies as religion.

All religion requires some form of group action and effort. Christian groups pray together, sing together, study together, and give to charity together.

Without this 'communal action' I dont see how any religion could possibly survive and endure.

And yet this is precisely what Jesus denied.

When moved to prayer Jesus commands his followers to "enter into thy closet" (Matthew 6:6) and proceed in private.

And when giving alms, he instructs the crowds:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the temples and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What do you suppose would happen to charity if no publicity were to be gained? What would become of religion if all prayer was performed in secret?

*************
M*W: The PR companies would go broke. Even I, an atheist, gives alms to the needy. I know in my heart that even if I give them money they could spend on drugs, it's the thought that counts in my soul. Who am I to judge what they do with the alms I give them?

 

[MacGyver1968]

Jesus commands his followers to "enter into thy closet" (Matthew 6:6) and proceed in private.

Maybe Jesus was telling them not to be "openly" gay. (sorry...couldn't resist)

I think maybe Jesus was suggesting that we do our charity for the right reasons...to help others, rather than just tooting our own horn.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Maybe Jesus was telling them not to be "openly" gay. (sorry...couldn't resist)

I think maybe Jesus was suggesting that we do our charity for the right reasons...to help others, rather than just tooting our own horn.

*************
M*W: Even atheists know that.

 

[Adstar]

This is a thread about whether the lifestyle taught by Jesus even qualifies as religion.

All religion requires some form of group action and effort. Christian groups pray together, sing together, study together, and give to charity together.

Without this 'communal action' I dont see how any religion could possibly survive and endure.

And yet this is precisely what Jesus denied.

When moved to prayer Jesus commands his followers to "enter into thy closet" (Matthew 6:6) and proceed in private.

And when giving alms, he instructs the crowds:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the temples and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What do you suppose would happen to charity if no publicity were to be gained? What would become of religion if all prayer was performed in secret?

As long as the Word of Jesus are there in the bible for all to read there will be followers of Jesus who believe Him and do their best to follow his teachings. This is how the faith survives. If only 1 in a million people accept the Word of Jesus then so be it. It is not about worldly popularity eternity is not a popularity vote.

People who are moved by the words of Jesus will give and have the joy of giving that sadly many people do not know. They will also find a quiet place out of the gaze of others and talk to God from their emotions in genuine communication.

Those who seek the praise of men and the publicity will follow the other route with loud public prayer to gain others attention and giving to the needy as publicly as possible to gain the advantages of being looked upon as a fine member of society.

When people give expecting thanks and the praise of others they have not given anything at all, they have merely paid a needy person to receive payment in the form of public praise.

True Christian giving is done in secret so that even the person who gets the gift does not know who gave it to them. True Christian givers even give aid and support to enemies who would commit acts of violence upon them given the opportunity.

The Only true gift is a gift where you receive Nothing in return from the receiver and you seek to receive nothing from any observer. Otherwise all one is doing is making a payment for both.



All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[codanblad]

don't bother reading adstar's, i can sum it up.

REAL christians are awesome and perfect and true, and we will never surrendah the confederacah! everyone else is going to hell.

all praise the ancient of days.

 

[Adstar]

confederacah? whats that.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[MacGyver1968]

confederacah? whats that.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

A comical way of saying the word "confederacy"...as in the south part of the US during the civil war.

All lays of the Confused and Dazed.

 

[Cyperium]

This is a thread about whether the lifestyle taught by Jesus even qualifies as religion.

All religion requires some form of group action and effort. Christian groups pray together, sing together, study together, and give to charity together.

Without this 'communal action' I dont see how any religion could possibly survive and endure.

And yet this is precisely what Jesus denied.

When moved to prayer Jesus commands his followers to "enter into thy closet" (Matthew 6:6) and proceed in private.

And when giving alms, he instructs the crowds:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the temples and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What do you suppose would happen to charity if no publicity were to be gained? What would become of religion if all prayer was performed in secret?

Yeah, why religion? He just asked us to believe in him and he would help us out. It's meant to be practiced by yourself alone and people would see your lifestyle and understand that you were of God. That is the way of christianity, but people want to create this big RELIGION, as some sort of community. And sure it may be helpful, and the church are there to help those that seek for understanding and help. So religion is not bad, but the followers are too....loud.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

A comical way of saying the word "confederacy"...as in the south part of the US during the civil war.

All lays of the Confused and Dazed.

*************
M*W: No, my dear, I'm a GRITS (girl raised in the South), and it is in no way "comical." It is spoken in a Deep Southern dialect, of which I have never been able to completely lose. And they think we talk funny in Texas!

 

[KennyJC]

This is a thread about whether the lifestyle taught by Jesus even qualifies as religion.

All religion requires some form of group action and effort. Christian groups pray together, sing together, study together, and give to charity together.

Without this 'communal action' I dont see how any religion could possibly survive and endure.

And yet this is precisely what Jesus denied.

When moved to prayer Jesus commands his followers to "enter into thy closet" (Matthew 6:6) and proceed in private.

And when giving alms, he instructs the crowds:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the temples and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

What do you suppose would happen to charity if no publicity were to be gained? What would become of religion if all prayer was performed in secret?

He said you shouldn't worship in public, yet he was preaching religious messages to large crowds? Seems contradictory to me.

 

[nova900]

People who are moved by the words of Jesus will give and have the joy of giving that sadly many people do not know. They will also find a quiet place out of the gaze of others and talk to God from their emotions in genuine communication.

Those who seek the praise of men and the publicity will follow the other route with loud public prayer to gain others attention and giving to the needy as publicly as possible to gain the advantages of being looked upon as a fine member of society.

When people give expecting thanks and the praise of others they have not given anything at all, they have merely paid a needy person to receive payment in the form of public praise.

The Only true gift is a gift where you receive Nothing in return from the receiver and you seek to receive nothing from any observer. Otherwise all one is doing is making a payment for both.

I don't normally agree with you Adstar but here I surely do. Giving without expecting any reward or praise is the intent that I believe Jesus would approve of.

 

[SnakeLord]

True Christian giving is done in secret so that even the person who gets the gift does not know who gave it to them.

Hence missionaries are not true christians?

 

[greenberg]

Without this 'communal action' I dont see how any religion could possibly survive and endure.

And yet this is precisely what Jesus denied.

I don't remember the exact verse, and I couldn't find it by keyword search, but surely someone can help me out here - there is a verse where Jesus says something to the effect of "When three (two?) meet in my name, the spirit shall be with them" - promoting communal action.

Really, the Bible can be cited to promote or prohibit pretty much anything.

 

[oiram]

I agree on this point and most Bibles I have seen are made of Rubber as they must be because they are twisted so much to fit the interpretation of the person carrying them. …………..

I personally think that it is what is in your heart and in your intentions regarding anything you do in life, including giving to the poor. If you give to the poor to be recognized for it then I think it is false and done for self promotion and gratification, whereas if you do it in private for the cause of helping I believe you will be rewarded for your actions in other ways or at another time.

Most world organization offering help to the poor or needy I feel must in some way advertise and promote their organization in order to make others aware of the cause or how to donate, but this too is bad in many ways as most of the organizations use the money for administrative costs and salaries, very little actually gets to the people.
As for what constitutes as religion:

Religion

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A religion is a set of tenets and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality

I often hear Jehovah’s witnesses claim they are not a religion but that is such a contradiction to the definition listed above… I have had nothing but bad experiences with Jehovah’s witnesses and have no use for any of them as they are all self righteous hypocrites in my opinion based on my own personal experiences with them. Most of the time whenever I encounter anyone claiming to be religious or a Christian I always immediately put up mu guard… If a person tells me they are atheist or they would rather not discuss their religious beliefs then I feel much more comfortable around them.

 

[Cyperium]

He said you shouldn't worship in public, yet he was preaching religious messages to large crowds? Seems contradictory to me.

Well, for ordinary people it's easy to do things for others appreciation so to not be tempted to do things for the wrong reasons we should do them in private.

The hypocrites would shout in large crowds just for people to notice them, and give sharity to poor in front of everybody just to show everybody that he was a righteous man, but the one doing all that in silence so that he doesn't get the appreciation of the people are more righteous than him.

Something to that extent is the message. At the beginning of His mission He didn't want to be noticed, as He told everybody He cured that they wouldn't say anything to anyone. But as they did He quickly became famous, so I guess the tactics changed

 

[Adstar]

A comical way of saying the word "confederacy"...as in the south part of the US during the civil war.

All lays of the Confused and Dazed.

Ohhh i am not from the USA. But i do know enough about the USA to know the meaning behind the message.

The poster is revealing a bigoted view of people who have a southern US accent as being people of inferior education and intellect and is pasting that onto me in an attept to somehow show me as a similar type of person.

It reveals a narrow-minded bigoted views of the poster. Revealing themselves to be worse than the depiction they sought to paste on another.

I wonder how people of southern USA feel about being insulted in such a false and demeaning way? No wonder there was a civil war.

Once again this form of communication shows it ‘self to be such a good revealer of peoples inner selves. Give a person enough rope and they will hang themselves.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

He said you shouldn't worship in public, yet he was preaching religious messages to large crowds? Seems contradictory to me.

When one is preaching they are not praying to God. Preaching is communicating with other people, giving other humans a message. It is not talking to God.

Hence missionaries are not true christians?

Interesting point. The purpose of a Missionary is to preach. To give the message of God to people. The giving of material assistance is secondary. I can be a missionary without being a public aide giver, But i agree it is sometimes very hard to give help to others without it being known of by others. I guess it comes down to ones convictions and doing ones best to conform to the teachings of Jesus. If one cannot avoid having their giving seen, then withholding help would be worse than giving. I do not doubt God knows the intentions of all people in such situations.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[codanblad]

Ohhh i am not from the USA. But i do know enough about the USA to know the meaning behind the message.

The poster is revealing a bigoted view of people who have a southern US accent as being people of inferior education and intellect and is pasting that onto me in an attept to somehow show me as a similar type of person.

It reveals a narrow-minded bigoted views of the poster. Revealing themselves to be worse than the depiction they sought to paste on another.

I wonder how people of southern USA feel about being insulted in such a false and demeaning way? No wonder there was a civil war.

Once again this form of communication shows it ‘self to be such a good revealer of peoples inner selves. Give a person enough rope and they will hang themselves.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

you put a lot of effort into saying 'yeah well fuck u too'. its nice how u figure me insulting you, after putting up with the crap you post, 'reveals a narrow-minded bigot'. it better fits you with your religious zeal and prejudice, imo.